# {New Dr Who Season, UK pace} \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347 "2011-04-22T12:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/401 "2011-05-16T19:15:07Z")
I liked this one. [QUOTE=@SPT777] Why did you use the Tennant-era TARDIS as the alternate control room? I would have loved to have seen an earlier version? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Neil Gaiman] So would I. But I was not able to reach any of the earlier producers in time and ask them to keep their sets up … [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/402 "2011-05-16T19:36:50Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Loved the episode, but I kept thinking _This should have been a David Tennant episode…_ Especially when the Doctor found the message boxes and realized what House had been doing. Smith is very good at portraying the Doctor’s chaotic energy, his intelligence, and his sense of humor - his is the _funniest_ of all the Doctors - but Tennant conveyed that and the Doctor’s sorrow, rage, and pain; as well as his moral sense. Tennant just seemed to have more range as an actor than does Smith - the scenes in _The Family of Blood_ between John Smith and the Matron, and the Doctor and the Matron are as moving as any I’ve ever seen on television. You know, I had the same thought; Matt is more than adequate as the Doctor, he won me over quicker than I thought he could, but I can’t help but thinking Tennant would have absolutely tore up the scenes where he realized this crazy woman was actually the TARDIS (see the scene in Silence in the Library where River Song told him his own name), and then had to say good bye to her at the end. This was a great episode, but it would have been just _that_ much better. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/403 "2011-05-16T20:44:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually… it appears that “petrichor” _really is_ the technical English language term for the smell of dust after rain. > > Wow, learn something new every day. Glad I wasn’t the only person to look that up. I think it’s a cool word. ---
**Author:** ![Qwisp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qwisp/32/397_2.png) [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/404 "2011-05-17T13:38:56Z")
I have a question. I have been watching Who since the Tom Baker days, but missed a few of the later doctors. Have they ever touched on the fact that even though the time lords are extinct, because they are “time lords” they should still be running into one another. Heck the doctor has run into himself a few times, so theoretically there should still be all sorts of time lords running around from the past. Has this ever been explained? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/405 "2011-05-17T13:54:05Z")
IIRC, The Doctor resolved the Time Wars by locking the Time Lords and Daleks outside the universe, so that they never existed. Of course, this creates all sorts of paradoxes that can easily be explained by… LOOK!! MONSTERS!! RUN!!! ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/406 "2011-05-17T14:33:08Z")
> [@Qwisp](#): > > I have a question. I have been watching Who since the Tom Baker days, but missed a few of the later doctors. Have they ever touched on the fact that even though the time lords are extinct, because they are “time lords” they should still be running into one another. Heck the doctor has run into himself a few times, so theoretically there should still be all sorts of time lords running around from the past. Has this ever been explained? Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this a little. His other selves have gone to Gallifrey throughout various points in the past and present, so how can he claim to be the last Time Lord? Certainly from the time of the war onwards you could say that Gallifrey no longer exists, but why he claims it doesn’t exist even before the war… The writers would probably say something about his time stream, which, if I understand right, means his personal time-line. For him, personally, from the time he destroyed Gallifrey and put a time-lock on it, he is now the last one (except for the master. And maybe the [meddling monk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meddling_Monk), and maybe the [Rani](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_%28Doctor_Who%29)). ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/407 "2011-05-17T15:59:44Z")
> [@Qwisp](#): > > I have a question. I have been watching Who since the Tom Baker days, but missed a few of the later doctors. Have they ever touched on the fact that even though the time lords are extinct, because they are “time lords” they should still be running into one another. Heck the doctor has run into himself a few times, so theoretically there should still be all sorts of time lords running around from the past. Has this ever been explained? Apparently one of the effects of whatever the Doctor did was to make it as if the Time Lords (and the Daleks and the Time War) never were. History was re-written, which is why when the Doctor travels to the future nobody remembers the Dalek invasion of Earth in the 22nd century. Some very few advanced races and etc. vaguely remember there once being Time Lords, but then they also vaguely remember the Time War as well. The Doctor doesn’t meet up with any Time Lords because of this. Also, I think there must have been some sort of mechanism to stop Time Lords from encountering each other non-chronologically, as I don’t believe this ever happened in the show other than the Doctor meeting himself (and that in very specific circumstances and always with Time Lord interference). > [@Nobody](#): > > Did you ever watch the Sylvester McCoy years? Besides the bad writing of the episodes I didn’t like that his version of the doctor was never really in any danger because he pretty much gave up all pretense of being anything other than brilliant and having all the answers. He had beaten all of his foes before, and he knew damn well he would beat them again. I actually liked the McCoy years. What you’re saying is true, but I’d argue that there were other factors to generate interest then:[ol] [li]There was a general sense of mistery and confusion to most of those stories, so we had to keep guessing what was going on at all times.[/li][li]It was a novelty. (So we hadn’t tired of it yet.)[/li][li]Ace was in danger. The new series doesn’t seem to kill companions, but the old one did.[/li][li]The show was canceled before we could tire of it.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/408 "2011-05-17T20:12:27Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this a little. His other selves have gone to Gallifrey throughout various points in the past and present, so how can he claim to be the last Time Lord? > Certainly from the time of the war onwards you could say that Gallifrey no longer exists, but why he claims it doesn’t exist even before the war… > The writers would probably say something about his time stream, which, if I understand right, means his personal time-line. For him, personally, from the time he destroyed Gallifrey and put a time-lock on it, he is now the last one (except for the master. And maybe the [meddling monk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meddling_Monk), and maybe the [Rani](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_%28Doctor_Who%29)). Don’t forget Jenny, wherever she’s got off to. The Land of Fiction, if it still exists, could also hold any number of Time Lord refugees. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/409 "2011-05-17T20:23:14Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Don’t forget Jenny, wherever she’s got off to. > > The Land of Fiction, if it still exists, could also hold any number of Time Lord refugees. I wonder - would the Land of Fiction be considered a bubble universe, like E-Space or House-Space? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/410 "2011-05-17T20:26:08Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I wonder - would the Land of Fiction be considered a bubble universe, like E-Space or House-Space? Yes. No!! I mean it’s nothing like that. But if it helps, why not? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/411 "2011-05-17T20:50:23Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Don’t forget Jenny, wherever she’s got off to. I wonder how much of a Time Lord (Lady?) she can actually be considered, since she has never had the opportunity to gaze into the heart of the Time Vortex or whatever it is they do with their young’uns. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/412 "2011-05-18T01:33:17Z")
> [@Qwisp](#): > > I have a question. I have been watching Who since the Tom Baker days, but missed a few of the later doctors. Have they ever touched on the fact that even though the time lords are extinct, because they are “time lords” they should still be running into one another. Heck the doctor has run into himself a few times, so theoretically there should still be all sorts of time lords running around from the past. Has this ever been explained? Yes. They call it a “Time Lock”. Gallifrey is “time locked”. That’s all the explanation there is - and all we need. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/413 "2011-05-18T01:46:49Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this a little. His other selves have gone to Gallifrey throughout various points in the past and present, so how can he claim to be the last Time It’s not just called a war, it’s called a “time war”. It wasn’t (isn’t/won’t be/pick tense) about blowing things up. It is/was/will be about rewriting time. It was started by the Time Lords when they asked Tom Baker to ensure the Daleks would never be created. The Doctor “ended” the Time War. No more Time Lords - past, present, or future. He didn’t just shoot them. He ended a TIME war. This is something we (a) have been told very little about, (b) involves concepts of time beyond our understanding and (c) means he’s the only Time Lord ever\*. We don’t, and likely won’t, ever know the details, how it works, why he remembers, or anything wake. We just have to accept that’s how it is/was/will be.\*\* \*except for when they make dramatic exceptions, like the Master. \*\*showing the Clone Wars ruined them. Better the Tine War remains a question, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/414 "2011-05-18T01:52:52Z")
> [@vdgg81](#): > > Apparently one of the effects of whatever the Doctor did was to make it as if the Time Lords (and the Daleks and the Time War) never were. History was re-written, which is why when the Doctor travels to the future nobody remembers the Dalek invasion of Earth in the 22nd century. Some very few advanced races and etc. vaguely remember there once being Time Lords, but then they also vaguely remember the Time War as well. The Doctor doesn’t meet up with any Time Lords because of this. Except the Master. > [@](#): > > Also, I think there must have been some sort of mechanism to stop Time Lords from encountering each other non-chronologically, as I don’t believe this ever happened in the show other than the Doctor meeting himself (and that in very specific circumstances and always with Time Lord interference). In The Two Doctors, with Collin Baker and Patrick Troughton, Baker’s version explained to Peri that when you travel though space and time as much as he does, you’re bound to run into yourself eventually. > [@](#): > > I actually liked the McCoy years. What you’re saying is true, but I’d argue that there were other factors to generate interest then:[ol] > [li]There was a general sense of mistery and confusion to most of those stories, so we had to keep guessing what was going on at all times.[/li][li]It was a novelty. (So we hadn’t tired of it yet.)[/li][li]Ace was in danger. The new series doesn’t seem to kill companions, but the old one did.[/li][li]The show was canceled before we could tire of it.[/li][/ol] I’m not sure what you mean by the other three points, but for the first one, for me the mystery was figuring out what the heck was going on. Some of the stories like Ghost Light and Survival had me scratching my head. I mean, I get the overall stories, but a lot of the details 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/415 "2011-05-18T01:53:55Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Don’t forget Jenny, wherever she’s got off to. OK, I’m totally blanking. Who’s Jenny again? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/416 "2011-05-18T02:00:16Z")
The Doctor’s Daughter, from the episode so-named. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/417 "2011-05-18T02:05:22Z")
:smack: Of course. Or actually the clone of his daughter I think. I wonder if she is Susan’s Mother. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/418 "2011-05-18T10:31:07Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > It’s not just called a war, it’s called a “time war”. It wasn’t (isn’t/won’t be/pick tense) about blowing things up. It is/was/will be about rewriting time. It was started by the Time Lords when they asked Tom Baker to ensure the Daleks would never be created. > > The Doctor “ended” the Time War. No more Time Lords - past, present, or future. He didn’t just shoot them. He ended a TIME war. > > This is something we (a) have been told very little about, (b) involves concepts of time beyond our understanding and (c) means he’s the only Time Lord ever\*. I suspect that that doesn’t add up - preventing a species from ever having existed is a good move in a Time War, but hardly the only possible tactic, and not one that would really be available to a rogue member of the species - I don’t think there can be a stable timeline in which a person like the Doctor exists, but didn’t have parents of his own kind and a society that educated him. He may well have rewritten Time Lord history, given it an end, and ‘locked’ it in place so that the other Time Lords could not rewrite his changes. Then, he can’t encounter other Time Lords because his own lock gets in the way. Except that he didn’t take the Master into account because he was presumed dead, but had actually survived, something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/419 "2011-05-18T11:04:48Z")
The Master rewrote his biology via a chameleon arc to become human then hid out at the end of time. It’s possible a few other Time Lords escaped by hiding as well ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/420 "2011-05-18T12:39:19Z")
Actually, I thought of another twist on Candyman’s Time war theory. If it’s possible in the Whoniverse for people to travel out of an alternate timeline without ceasing to exist in paradox, then that could be what happened to the Doctor. He changed history away from the timeline that the Time Lords had ever existed in, and then escaped that timeline himself. Other Time Lords would have had to deliberately escape that timeline too, (as they all did in "The end of Time,) or they would never exist. Not quite sure how this explains the Master. Rewriting his biology wouldn’t save him from non-existence if his Time Lord parents were never born. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347.md?page=22)