# {New Dr Who Season, UK pace} \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347 "2011-04-22T12:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/741 "2011-06-13T10:45:26Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Wow, who pissed in your Cheerios? It’s just a TV show. No need to get so emotional. I’m not emotional, it just gets irritating to have people bang on about things that the insist are important when there’s no clear reason to think that (how many times did people bring up the absence of ducks in the pond in Prisoner Zero as some big hidden mystery that would eventually be revealed?). **typoink** - I take your point that Moffat tends not to leave white space, and particularly when you’re dealing with a race that use white space as a weapon you’d be a little surprised that this wasn’t explored more. I think you’re right, that we’ll find out there’s more to it with the Silence than just those episodes. For example, what’s their connection with Melody as they were the ones raising her, it seems. As ever it’ll all become clear in the fullness of time, I think Moffat has demonstrated that he comes good on his promises in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/742 "2011-06-14T00:20:03Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Well, this may help. … Not bad! So River’s upset in The Library makes perfect sense because she now believes, perhaps correctly, that she will never, in her timeline, see the Doctor again. By the point next time we see her, with the Angels, she is has dealt with the fact that she is interacting with her mother from before she was born and able to play it coy. There will be a point in the future from the Amy/Doctor perspective where adult River mets her mother for the first time, with Amy already knowing it. The whole dynamic in fact will change from River not giving spoilers to The Doctor and Amy not giving things away. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/743 "2011-06-14T02:24:33Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I’m not emotional, it just gets irritating to have people bang on about things that the insist are important when there’s no clear reason to think that (how many times did people bring up the absence of ducks in the pond in Prisoner Zero as some big hidden mystery that would eventually be revealed?). Yeah, but then you have the whole thing with the missing jacket from the episode with the Weeping Angels last season. What seemed like a simple filming mistake was actually a real plot point, so it’s hard to tell what small insignificant things might turn out to be important. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/744 "2011-06-14T21:34:36Z")
Yes, I take your point **Eyebrows**. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/745 "2011-06-16T11:05:57Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I’m not emotional, it just gets irritating to have people bang on about things that the insist are important when there’s no clear reason to think that (how many times did people bring up the absence of ducks in the pond in Prisoner Zero as some big hidden mystery that would eventually be revealed?). I thought the ducks went the way of Amy’s parents, although I don’t recall this ever being confirmed or that they’d come back post-reboot. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/746 "2011-06-16T13:50:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I thought the ducks went the way of Amy’s parents, although I don’t recall this ever being confirmed or that they’d come back post-reboot. I still think we might see some more adventures in America. However, I think it’s safe to say that one of the reasons that the ducks got so much attention was just because the Doctor flat out asked the question. It seemed like it might be significant to the protagonist. It’s only natural to think so. The stuff in America, we KNOW what happened during their time. But do we know ALL of what they did? No. Though to be fair, neither do the characters… Since it’s definitely possible Amy got snatched during that time we might actually see it. Or not. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/747 "2011-06-17T10:00:50Z")
Presumably we’ll at least be going back to the lake for a new perspective on the Doctor’s death (or “death”). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/748 "2011-06-20T04:06:44Z")
Finally catching up. Yowza. I liked the Sontaran nurse. That’s an honor debt for you. And the lesbian Salurian that has trouble telling male and female mammals apart. > [@Yllaria](#): > > I think that’s in the future. There’s still that prediction about the River being the way out of the Forest. No, that prediction was carried out in this episode. “The only water in the forest is the river” was what the TARDIS said. That’s also what River said, explaining the writing on the prayer leaf. (Which, by the way, is flat out wrong. Forests have streams, and creeks, and ponds, and even lakes.) The point is that Lorna Bucket is from the Gamma Forest. She used her language to write the name, and thus we get the River/Pond - Song/Melody transposition. That was what was foreshadowed by the prior line. And speaking of language, when Amy is first meeting Lorna, Lorna says something about “Then why does he call himself that [the Doctor]?” That’s the first hint in the episode for the later confrontation by River. What does that word come to mean? Clearly for Lorna, it has come to mean “Warrior” or “Soldier” or “Destroyer” or something. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Seems to me there was only ONE Sontaran, and that one was doing penance for some unspecified Horrible Thing. He was doing penance for an honor debt of his blood line. He seemed to be the same line as the ones faced by Tenant. I think that their failure to win and conquer the Earth created that honor debt, and their line couldn’t go home without facing some form of penance, and the Doctor arranged that penance in the most humiliating form he could find for a Sontaran. I’m growing rather fond of Rory. At first he was mostly a joke, but he’s becoming more. Also notice that the Doctor has definitely changed. He went from being “the Man who Wouldn’t” to being “the man who you don’t want to find out”. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/749 "2011-06-20T06:03:02Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > (Which, by the way, is flat out wrong. Forests have streams, and creeks, and ponds, and even lakes.) I don’t think the line was supposed to imply that the only water in **ANY** forest is the river. The implication (or maybe it was outright stated–I can’t remember the scene exactly) is that the only water \*in the Gamma Forest \*is the river, and that is why Lorna had no other word in her language to convey “Pond.” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/750 "2011-06-20T20:23:51Z")
That is perhaps the fairest interpretation, but it would be a pretty bizarre set of circumstances that there is a river without streams to feed it, rainwater, and collections of water where obstacles prevent it flowing downhill smoothly. Those collection points become ponds. But hey, Moffat needed the name gimmick somehow. (I wonder if this is the big secret Moffat told Alex Kingston early on.) ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/751 "2011-06-20T21:28:36Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > That is perhaps the fairest interpretation, but it would be a pretty bizarre set of circumstances that there is a river without streams to feed it, rainwater, and collections of water where obstacles prevent it flowing downhill smoothly. Those collection points become ponds. This is Doctor Who, you know! ---
**Author:** ![barney5\_99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@barney5\_99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barney5_99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/752 "2011-08-06T14:30:38Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > So anybody care to make a few WAG predictions? > > - There will be at least one joke about the upcoming royal wedding. (Someone will congratulate Amy & Rory on their recent wedding, and drop a hint about future events for the future king & his queen.) > > - The mysterious entity “the Silence” will revealed to be… River Song herself. (She debuted in a story called “Silence in the Library”, it’s strongly hinted that she kills the Doctor at some future point, and Stephen Moffatt has gone to a lot of effort to get the audience to like & get behind this character - it’s seems only apropo that he is planning on pulling the rug out from beneath everybody. > > - The mid-season cliffhanger will be the Doctor being mortally wounded by River, and beginning to regenerate - in the fall, we’ll see a new Doctor. > > - The sonic screwdriver will be used for some purpose other than driving screws. (Many other purposes in fact.) > > - The Daleks will make some “surprise appearance” late in the season. I am also wondering if she is rory’s daughter or the Doctor’s … she was able to exist in 2 dimensions simultaniously…as only a time lord could do… remember the doctor was scanning Amy’s body from the Tardis in episode #160 - The Doctor’s Wife… and my DVR shows the special Doctor Who episode airs on Aug 13th…next Sat. not this one ---
**Author:** ![barney5\_99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@barney5\_99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barney5_99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/753 "2011-08-06T14:37:46Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Given that the TARDIS dying was the big element of the last series, that would be a retread too soon. > > Not that I think River’s going to kill any of the heroes. Her killing ‘a good man’ was in her relative past, and it doesn’t look like we’ll see such in this series. And by her death, if she’d done it again, it’s unlikely she’d have been in the position she needs to be in for Silence in the Library. yes but remember…she always said her past is the Doctor’s future ---
**Author:** ![barney5\_99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@barney5\_99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barney5_99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/754 "2011-08-06T14:43:54Z")
> [@howye](#): > > If Moffat has any balls, that is who it is. And I think we can agree that he does indeed have the brass ones to do that. > > [SPOILER]River says she kills a good man, the best man. That is NOT the Doctor, who would be the first to admit it. He has done bad things. But Rory? He has never wavered in doing the right thing. River obviously allows herself to be held in prison, so she agrees with her punishment. > > And from a story persepective, it has to be a charachter that the audience connects with and will feel the emotional blow. What better emotional punch can you get than to end the series with Rory dead, Amy separated from the Doctor either pregenant or with a baby, and River in prison? And no fix, no reset for all of it. Just a guess though.[/SPOILER] [SPOILER]also in episode 165 - A good man goes to war- we find out River is Amy’s daughter… so if she kills Rory does that mean she kills her own father?.. or is the Doctor her father?.. she does have some time lord capabilities… ---
**Author:** ![barney5\_99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@barney5\_99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barney5_99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/755 "2011-08-06T15:19:59Z")
yes but as revealed in episode #165 - a good man goes to war - river song is Amy’s daughter ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/756 "2011-08-06T17:41:21Z")
> [@barney5\_99](#): > > I am also wondering if she is rory’s daughter or the Doctor’s … she was able to exist in 2 dimensions simultaniously…as only a time lord could do… remember the doctor was scanning Amy’s body from the Tardis in episode #160 - The Doctor’s Wife… > > and my DVR shows the special Doctor Who episode airs on Aug 13th…next Sat. not this one River’s attitude to either of the Doctors she’s met has always seemed a bit more erotically charged than that of a daughter to her father. Besides–I really think I’d remember the Doctor screwing Amy. (River did absorb certain Time-Lordish properties by being conceived in the TARDIS.) And the season resumes August 27th on BBCamerica. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/757 "2011-08-06T19:09:21Z")
A clue will be if Rory starts learning how to pilot the TARDIS, because I’m pretty sure the man she killed taught her how to pilot one. Better than the Doctor (edit: the current Doctor anyway) even. As for who her father is, it’s most likely Rory. Every indication is made that the Doctor and River become lovers. I suppose Moffat could be messing with us, but I honestly don’t think so. At lest when it comes to this. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/758 "2011-08-06T21:02:25Z")
I thought it was made unambiguously clear that Rory is the father in the last episode. She was conceived in the time vortex on the Pond’s honeymoon. As Futurama would put it, “they did the nasty in the past-y.” ---
**Author:** ![Marlitharn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/759 "2011-08-07T02:31:51Z")
The Doctor definitely taught River to fly. In “The Pandorica Opens” the TARDIS starts going nuts and he accuses her of flying it wrong. She replies, “I’m flying it perfectly! YOU taught me!” Going by the previews I’ve seen online, I’m getting the feeling this may be Matt Smith’s last season. And I don’t want it to be. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347/760 "2011-08-07T02:34:04Z")
I thought they had already signed Matt Smith for Season 7? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-dr-who-season-uk-pace-edited-title/579347.md?page=39)