# New Fridge won’t support magnets **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136 "2013-10-01T21:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/21 "2013-10-02T14:12:22Z")
I don’t really understand why stainless steel isn’t magnetic. Steel is mostly iron; aren’t all ferrous substances magnetic? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/22 "2013-10-02T15:02:18Z")
We were also appalled when our new fridge proved to be unfriendly to magnets. But then my dad got these super strong magnets - on normal magnetic surfaces they stick so hard you can barely pull them off. On the fridge they work like normal magnets. Dunno what is up with that. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/23 "2013-10-02T15:15:05Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > We were also appalled when our new fridge proved to be unfriendly to magnets. But then my dad got these super strong magnets - on normal magnetic surfaces they stick so hard you can barely pull them off. On the fridge they work like normal magnets. Dunno what is up with that. I was gonna suggest this. Neodymium magnets or rare-earth magnets work well on my fridge when others do not. I used to have to order them from China when I built a couple of generators, but they’re quite common now and you can find and/or buy them everywhere. I’ve even stolen some from the kids toys, locker mirrors, employee name tags, etc… ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/24 "2013-10-02T15:32:00Z")
How about simply not covering your refrigerator with a bunch of crap? No offense to your kids’ artwork. Mine is covered in stupid magnets and receipts and I hate it. If you must display things, try a bulletin board on a different wall. They make them magnetic, too. ---
**Author:** ![RememberMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@RememberMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RememberMe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/25 "2013-10-02T15:54:59Z")
> [@Alba](#): > > [Magnetic paint](https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&ved=0CHkQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpaintmagnetic.com%2F&ei=Q-lLUpvBKoK89QS974CgDg&usg=AFQjCNEx6FTtMFHShc3bzG_N2LsWIWno3Q&bvm=bv.53371865,d.eWU) will do the trick too. Don’t waste your money. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/26 "2013-10-02T16:06:38Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > How about simply not covering your refrigerator with a bunch of crap? No offense to your kids’ artwork. Mine is covered in stupid magnets and receipts and I hate it. Yes, I recall saying, “Gosh, honey, I guess there’s no way to put stuff on the fridge any more” with great sympathy. 😃 > [@](#): > > If you must display things, try a bulletin board on a different wall. They make them magnetic, too. “Gosh, honey, do you mind if I weed the bulletin board? There’s a takeout menu here from before we moved 3,000 miles, two coupons from companies that have gone out of business and a reminder to get your car smogged before June of 2009.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/27 "2013-10-02T16:10:01Z")
Steel sheets can be bought, cheaply, in Hobby Shops. 4 screws into your kitchen wall, & you’ve got a bulletin board, magnetic type. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/28 "2013-10-02T16:19:38Z")
(ETA: garygnu and Armature Barbarian:) You both work for Samsung, don’t you? Will any neodymium magnets work or do they need to be larger than a certain size? They’re cheap enough on Amazon if the little disks will be sufficient (and cheap enough to experiment if it’s a ‘it depends’ kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/29 "2013-10-02T16:24:31Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Steel sheets can be bought, cheaply, in Hobby Shops. > 4 screws into your kitchen wall, & you’ve got a bulletin board, magnetic type. You can buy a framed magnetic whiteboard, with a bunch of magnets and markers, for under $20. If your family doesn’t have one, I recommend it as a central buy-this and note center. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/30 "2013-10-02T16:38:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t really understand why stainless steel isn’t magnetic. Steel is mostly iron; aren’t all ferrous substances magnetic? [Because it is Austenite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenitic) ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/31 "2013-10-02T16:40:03Z")
bluetack. the stuff that is like chewing gum maybe a different marketing where you are. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/32 "2013-10-02T17:03:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t really understand why stainless steel isn’t magnetic. Steel is mostly iron; aren’t all ferrous substances magnetic? > [@Lukeinva](#): > > [Because it is Austenite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenitic) > [@j\_sum1](#): > > You got to know your grades of SS. > A bare minimum of 12% chromium added will be enough to create stainless, but it will rust fairly easily. > Up that to 18% and you have 304 grade. It will form a self-protective oxide coating and will not rust. The iron retains its body-centred-cubic crystal structure and is still ferromagnetic. The problem is that 304 is not that malleable. Good luck drawing a deep sink out of that stuff. > Enter 316 grade. 18% Chromium, 8% nickel, malleable and ductile. Problem is that it has a different crystal structure (fcc) and magnets won’t stick to it. It tends to look a bit more attractive too and resists scratching a bit better. (I’m quoting **j\_sum1** out of order here. He actually posted before **Really Not All That Bright**.) Anyway, from that Wikipedia site which dowsn’t really answer “why” austenite steel isn’t magnetic, there’s a picture of the austenite FCC structure and the Ferrite BCC structure. So if you tell me Iron in one of those structures is magnetic and Iron in the other one isn’t, I can think “yeah, OK, I can see where that could make a difference.” But is there some “first principal” way to look at them and tell which one of the two would be the magnetic one? Would I have to know the bonds that are formed in the crystal, so I could know if there were unpaired electrons or something? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/33 "2013-10-02T17:11:14Z")
I had some rather funky friends who decorated their kitchen wall with the door of an old fridge. Just bolted it to the wall all by itself. They used it to hold their nicknacks magnetic letters. You might try that. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/34 "2013-10-02T23:12:40Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Steel sheets can be bought, cheaply, in Hobby Shops. > 4 screws into your kitchen wall, & you’ve got a bulletin board, magnetic type. You’re assuming everyone has just some blank wall in the kitchen they can use for such a purpose. Not everyone does. I know I don’t. But fortunately the new Kenmore we got last year still works just fine with magnets. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/35 "2013-10-02T23:32:11Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Steel sheets can be bought, cheaply, in Hobby Shops. > 4 screws into your kitchen wall, & you’ve got a bulletin board, magnetic type. > [@TBG](#): > > You’re assuming everyone has just some blank wall in the kitchen they can use for such a purpose. Not everyone does. I know I don’t. > > But fortunately the new Kenmore we got last year still works just fine with magnets. Glue. Cabinet door. Knock yerself out. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/36 "2013-10-03T00:54:54Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > And, when you take down the artwork, put a few away very carefully - preferably matted. You’ll thank me 30 years from now. We have a couple of steel filing cabinets here at my shop. For 18 years they’ve been covered in various quality bits of artwork from my buisness partners kids. As the layers got deep each and every piece from the under stratas was put in a drawer. His middle kid was here a few weeks ago and opened that drawer and was flabbergasted to find them all carefully preserved. For a moment I thought I was going to see a 15 year old boy cry. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/37 "2013-10-03T03:13:31Z")
Think what great wedding gifts they’d make! (but only if there are equal numbers for each party - provide equal ammo to each) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/38 "2013-10-03T03:40:10Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > (I’m quoting **j\_sum1** out of order here. He actually posted before **Really Not All That Bright**.) > > Anyway, from that Wikipedia site which dowsn’t really answer “why” austenite steel isn’t magnetic, there’s a picture of the austenite FCC structure and the Ferrite BCC structure. So if you tell me Iron in one of those structures is magnetic and Iron in the other one isn’t, I can think “yeah, OK, I can see where that could make a difference.” But is there some “first principal” way to look at them and tell which one of the two would be the magnetic one? Would I have to know the bonds that are formed in the crystal, so I could know if there were unpaired electrons or something? You kind of got that the wrong way around. Generally you would use a magnet to determine the crystal structure rather than begin with the crystal structure and try to determine whether it is magnetic. Magnetism is caused by unpaired electrons producing a dipole moment which is positively reinforced due to the repetition in the crystal structure. In that sense it is well understood. However, the specifics are complex and I admit to my eyes glazing over and nodding blankly whenever the subject comes up. I do know that for iron, both ferrite (body-centred-cubic) and martensite (body-centred-tetragonal) phases are magnetic. Austenite (face-centred-cubic) is not. Magnetism is possible in fcc crystals (Interestingly, nickel is an example) but it doesn’t occur for iron. Transformation from ferrite to austenite occurs at elevated temperatures (above 738°C). Addition of nickel to the steel brings this temperature down to below room temperature – or at least down below a temperature where crystal structure change is kinetically possible. It is weird because both iron and nickel are magnetic but a mixture of the two is not. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/39 "2013-10-03T11:59:42Z")
> [@jsum\_1](#): > > You kind of got that the wrong way around. Generally you would use a magnet to determine the crystal structure rather than begin with the crystal structure and try to determine whether it is magnetic. I assume you mean checking if it’s austenite by seeing if a magnet sticks to piece of metal. > [@](#): > > I do know that for iron, both ferrite (body-centred-cubic) and martensite (body-centred-tetragonal) phases are magnetic. Austenite (face-centred-cubic) is not. Magnetism is possible in fcc crystals (Interestingly, nickel is an example) but it doesn’t occur for iron. Yeah, in thinking about this some more, I don’t think it’s the element (through it’s nuclei) that’s magnetic, it’s the electrons. The element or alloy and their crystal structure set up the electron structure, and it’s the electrons’s structure that determines magnetism. You’d need to know the electron orbitals of the bonds in a particular crystal to determine if a material is magnetic. Or, you know, try to stick a magnet to it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136/40 "2013-10-03T13:37:49Z")
That’s often a problem when you upgrade your platform; older apps aren’t compatible. You’ll probably have to upgrade to Magnets 4.0. Might as well anyway; Magnets 3.7.1 was pretty crappy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fridge-won-t-support-magnets/670136.md?page=3)