# New Fucking Jersey **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374 "2006-03-07T14:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/21 "2006-03-07T16:35:49Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > He’s trying to snark on your grammar from your OP: > > He is claiming that your use of the word _alternate_ is grammatically incorrect; he is wrong. It’s not egregious, it’s a peeve. A minor one. Alternative is preferred. “I need to find an alternative source of income” is preferred to “I need to find an alternate source of income.” Not worth a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/22 "2006-03-07T16:42:36Z")
In response to black455s question, no, you can’t buy beer at a grocery store in New Jersey. Some grocery stores operate a liquor store that is part of the grocery store, and may be accessible via the grocery store itself, but it has its own counter and register. I thought that was the way it was everywhere, since I grew up here, but when I first went to a grocery store in NY I was amazed to see the beer being sold there. And you didn’t really mean that you buy beer for the drive home, right? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/23 "2006-03-07T16:55:31Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Speaking of which, can you buy beer at the supermarkets in NJ? Nope. Beer and wine are controlled by the NJ Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control, and is grouped along with hard liquor, so that only those places with a state-issued liquor license can sell them. You can only get beer in a liquor store or a bar selling package goods. When I moved down here to Virginia from NJ, I was quite surprised to discover one could buy beer or wine in supermarkets, gas stations and convenience stores. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/24 "2006-03-07T17:03:59Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Nope. Beer and wine are controlled by the NJ Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control, and is grouped along with hard liquor, so that only those places with a state-issued liquor license can sell them. You can only get beer in a liquor store or a bar selling package goods. When I moved down here to Virginia from NJ, I was quite surprised to discover one could buy beer or wine in supermarkets, gas stations and convenience stores. Of course with the exception of some supermarkets having a license to sell alcohol. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/25 "2006-03-07T17:09:54Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Of course with the exception of some supermarkets having a license to sell alcohol. Yes. I do remember encountering a few, but they seemed to be few and far between. The only one near my hometown was a King’s on Springfield Avenue, just across the city line into Summit. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/26 "2006-03-07T17:10:03Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > New York has a table (or formula - can’t remember off the top of my head) for expected out-of-state internet/catalog purchases for a given income level. One is not forced to enter any amount for the sales tax. However, the lack of any amount in that field is most assuredly a flag that may highlight your return for audit. Man, that’s kinda fucked up. I use the internet a whole lot, but I rarely buy anything online. I wonder if that puts me in a high risk group for audit? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/27 "2006-03-07T17:15:28Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Yes. I do remember encountering a few, but they seemed to be few and far between. The only one near my hometown was a King’s on Springfield Avenue, just across the city line into Summit. They are still rare but this are several in my area. Shoprites especially. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/28 "2006-03-07T17:31:07Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > My father suggests starting a correspondence and stringing them along for as long as possible. I’m inclined to agree, though I’m also worried about the consequences of having a state government hounding me. Suggestions are welcome. Well you can do the same thing with money owed to the IRS. However you’re likely to suffer the same consequence. While stringing them along the late charges and interest keep piling up. As far as the transporting, I don’t understand the logic there. If I buy a pack of smokes in MN and drive back into ND, do I owe ND and money? Nope. I don’t see how NY can look for revenue if NJ is already hitting you for the tax. I think NJ is coming after you because the shipment was in your name. Also, since the shipping address was in NJ, they’re looking for the taxes and fees. They don’t care where they’re smoked, justthat they were shipped to an address in their state. And what’s up with the Russian deal? If anyone can send an e-mail (DON’T detail it here!) telling what this is about I’d be interested to find out what the deal is. I can’t imagine the smokes are that great a deal if they’re being shipped halfway around the world. And wouldn’t customs be able to easily figure out what the shipment is? And I can’t say I’d be real thrilled about smoking a Russian cigarette. Doral’s are harsh. Imagine what Moscow’s finest must be like. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/29 "2006-03-07T17:35:35Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > > [@Q.E.D.](#): > > > > Nope. Beer and wine are controlled by the NJ Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control, and is grouped along with hard liquor, so that only those places with a state-issued liquor license can sell them. You can only get beer in a liquor store or a bar selling package goods. When I moved down here to Virginia from NJ, I was quite surprised to discover one could buy beer or wine in supermarkets, gas stations and convenience stores. > > Of course with the exception of some supermarkets having a license to sell alcohol. > > Jim :eek: You east coast people and your blue laws. Always blows me away. The first time my husband came out from Pennsylvania for a week, we grabbed a bottle of wine from the local supermarket on Sunday afternoon (I live close to the Napa valley, so the selection goes on and on). He kept looking around furtively, and when we got out to the car, he told me he’s never going to get used to being able to buy alcohol on a Sunday. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/30 "2006-03-07T17:45:05Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > As far as the transporting, I don’t understand the logic there. If I buy a pack of smokes in MN and drive back into ND, do I owe ND and money? Nope. I don’t see how NY can look for revenue if NJ is already hitting you for the tax. The difference is that the OP didn’t pay taxes to any state. [Here’s](http://www.nd.gov/tax/misc/faq/tobacco/index.html#Question4) your state, **duffer**. > [@](#): > > Individuals may legally purchase cigarettes and tobacco products over the Internet; however, the purchaser has an obligation to report and pay the cigarette tax on purchases greater than 200 cigarettes and the tobacco tax due on all tobacco purchases. North Dakota use tax also applies to the purchase price. The same applies to reservation purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/31 "2006-03-07T18:03:53Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Honestly, I thought it was a loophole. Sales tax is not charged on interstate online purchases, and NY’s solution was to ban the importation (not ramp up their efforts to collect the taxes), so I don’t know why that would be implausible. Actually, I think that in many states, they reserve the right to levy taxes on items shipped in from out of state. Here in Virginia, it’s the “Consumers’ Use Tax” (I think that’s the name) - if you make mail-order purchases, you’re supposed to file a report around tax-time, declaring the value of the purchases and paying the equivalent sales tax to Virginia. Realistically, they probably get only a _very_ small percentage of the taxes that would be due if everyone remembered or bothered to file (on preview, others have said much the same thing but I already typed this so I’m going to post it anyway, so there :D). They do catch some through various means. We bought a piece of furniture from NC. And an audit of books of the shipping company turned up our name. As we’d genuinely _forgotten_ about the tax, and knew we should have paid, we simply wrote a check and that was the end. Nowhere _near_ 1800 dollars though!! eSmokes is at least partly at fault for not PROMINENTLY displaying a warning that taxes may be due in the locality where they ship to. However, if they do get audited by, say, NJ, I imagine they pretty much have to cooperate or risk getting nailed for tax evasion. Regarding someone else’s comment that bringing the smokes into NY is evasion… I’m not sure what the law is but I’ve heard that it’s perfectly permissible to bring in personal-use quantities. No idea what the cutoff is for that, however the occasional 3-4 cartons wouldn’t seem unreasonable, and that ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/32 "2006-03-07T19:01:11Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > He kept looking around furtively, and when we got out to the car, he told me he’s never going to get used to being able to buy alcohol on a Sunday. Oddly enough, in most jurisdictions within New Jersey, you CAN buy alcohol on Sunday. IIRC, the only real restriction was that it was not allowed to be sold before noon. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/33 "2006-03-07T19:04:46Z")
OK, OK, OK. Regardless of who is at fault for what, we all agree that “New Fucking Jersey” _is_ the proper spelling of the state’s name, right? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/34 "2006-03-07T19:12:35Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Oddly enough, in most jurisdictions within New Jersey, you CAN buy alcohol on Sunday. IIRC, the only real restriction was that it was not allowed to be sold before noon. I know that is true in NY. NJ, however, has some onerous blue laws closing down most establishments on Sundays. Are supermarkets and/or liquor stores exempted? For the record, NY recently amended its blue law (or might just have mended its interpretation of the law). Liquor stores can now open on Sunday (but still must abide by the noon ruling). However, liquor stores still can only open 6 days per week. **Ponder** , I am also open to _Fucking New Jersey_ or _Fuckin’ Joisey_. No, I cannot agree. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/35 "2006-03-07T19:25:01Z")
I’ve received a couple of emails on this issue. Thanks to those that responded. > [@Frank](#): > > The difference is that the OP didn’t pay taxes to any state. > > [Here’s](http://www.nd.gov/tax/misc/faq/tobacco/index.html#Question4) your state, **duffer**. > > The same applies to reservation purchases. I guess the best thing about this thread is I’m learning a bit about buying smokes online. I’ve never been to one of the sites. Checking out a few links, I find the “great deals” are roughly $26 for a carton of Marlboros. On my way home today BP was selling them for $27.84 plus 6.75% sales tax. Of course, at $8 a pack in NY, I can see the lure. But online shops are pretty much useless to me as the shipping will lose me money. Oh well, I’ll have to just abide the law on this one, I guess. It’s nice to not bloat the coffers by paying an unreasonable fee to Bismarck for using a legal product (well, the tax is reasonable, the rate isn’t) so I have that going for me. But considering some would be envious of what I pay, it just doesn’t have the same feel of getting away with something. If smokes ever even were proposed to getting near $80 a carton, you’d see what civil disobedience is really about. North Dakotans would buy smokes in Canada just out of spite. And to avoid any bullshit fee Bismarck could dream up, we’d smoke them all at the strip clubs before coming home. Of course, without the revenue, I have no idea how they’d be able to afford the 80 new lanes at border crossings. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/36 "2006-03-07T19:30:22Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I know that is true in NY. NJ, however, has some onerous blue laws closing down most establishments on Sundays. Are supermarkets and/or liquor stores exempted? This doesn’t really add anything, just a tidbit. ND doesn’t allow sales before Noon on Sunday. (Real convenient when you want to go watch football.) :rolleyes: Other wise it’s 8 am all other days and a close time of 2:30. As an aside, closing times piss me off, too. If a guy works till midnight, that’s 2 and a half hours. The closing times are based on yesteryear when most people worked till 5 pm. It would be no different to the 2nd shift factory worker than it would be to the office worker if last call was 8pm. Liquor 24 hours a day. That’s my stand. I’d appreciate your vote on Tuesday. Anyway, sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/37 "2006-03-07T19:44:50Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I know that is true in NY. NJ, however, has some onerous blue laws closing down most establishments on Sundays. Are supermarkets and/or liquor stores exempted? In the areas of NJ I’ve lived, liquor stores are generally open on Sundays, but not until after noon. Most bars are also seemed to be open, though they usually close earlier than they do during the rest of the week, though I don’t know if that was by law or by choice. Of course, all the preceding can, and does, vary by jurisdiction; there are even some towns in NJ which are dry! I’m not sure about grocery stores which sell beer and wine, since there are so few of them and I don’t recall ever buying beer in one, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/38 "2006-03-07T20:10:29Z")
Obviously, [**VarlosZ** isn’t alone](http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=29157). > [@](#): > > Michigan resident Julia Sidebottom inhaled sharply when she opened her mailbox earlier this year and was greeted with an unexpected and unwelcome bill from the state for $4,753.89 in unpaid cigarette and sales taxes. > > For several years, Sidebottom’s boyfriend purchased cigarettes online at [www.esmokes.com](http://www.esmokes.com), one of 13 online cigarette retailers from which Michigan recently subpoenaed customer lists. She said the bill caught her completely off guard. Regarding the Russian imports–either you’re going to pay import duties on them, or the shipper is lying about the contents of their shipments and **you** could get in [big trouble](http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import/infrequent_importer_info/internet_purchases.xml). > [@](#): > > Reminder: U.S. Customs and Border Protection holds the importer - YOU - liable for the payment of duty not the seller. > [@](#): > > Many items cannot be imported into the United States unless the importer has the proper permit or license from the appropriate regulatory authority. Some of the most common restricted items include . . . alcohol and tobacco products . . . ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/39 "2006-03-07T20:25:25Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > It’s not egregious, it’s a peeve. A minor one. Alternative is preferred. “I need to find an alternative source of income” is preferred to “I need to find an alternate source of income.” > > Not worth a hijack. You did the hijacking, you pay the penalty. Interestingly, you’ve provided an excellent example of why so many styleguides look down on use of the passive voice. By using “is preferred”, you’ve avoided indicating who is doing the preferring. In this case, that is (of course) _you_ - but by not indicating that it’s _you_ who prefers it, you’ve lent your advice authority that it doesn’t really deserve. I’m sure you didn’t come up with the rule on your own. No doubt you read it somewhere, or were taught it by an ignorant schoolteacher, and you simply didn’t have the knowledge to recognize that it was just one more meaningless bit of idiocy getting passed around at the expense of the English language. Nevertheless, saying that it “is preferred” is a very weaselly way of avoiding responsibility for your words. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374/40 "2006-03-07T20:29:34Z")
That helped out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-fucking-jersey/347374.md?page=3)