# New geography question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470 "2004-04-06T01:17:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/1 "2004-04-06T01:17:17Z")
This one seems kinda vague and I’m thinking Isreal. The neice went for Egypt. 1. Assyrian, Persian, Greek and Roman Empires warred over control of the area. 2. Inhabitants have been relocated so many times their language has a word that describes their desperation. (Maybe Palestinians?) 3. In 2nd century Ptolemy included this place on the same map that indicated the location of the Ark. (This should be a dead giveaway, but I just don’t know it) 4. Recently declared victory in a 6 year war, but economy has been severly wounded. Any help? As always, thanks in advance. Re last one: it was Ascension Island if interested. ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/2 "2004-04-06T02:20:49Z")
Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/3 "2004-04-06T02:20:58Z")
Easy one - Israel, of course. Out of the four points, I don’t specifically remember about Ptolemy’s map, but everything else adds up and nothing else qualifies. Iraq, Syria, and Egypt, the only other regions covered by all four+ ( the Greeks get multiple entries ) of those powers, have no tradition of continuous diaspora. Further Israel is the only one, minus Iraq ( fighting has been going on longer than 6 years, depending how you define it, plus no frequent diasporas ) or Lebanon ( by some counts, but again it doesn’t meet the diaspora requirement ) engaged in continuous conflict recently. Don’t know if Israel recently declared a symbolic “victory” ( if so it is a mighty hollow one ), but it may have and anyway is the only state that qualifies. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/4 "2004-04-06T02:23:25Z")
I’m including Lebanon in Syria above, obviously ;). As for Turkey, the Assyrian state ( the most limited in size of the above mentioned powers ) never really extended much beyond the Taurus mts… - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/5 "2004-04-06T02:44:07Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > This one seems kinda vague and I’m thinking Isreal. The neice went for Egypt. > > 1. Assyrian, Persian, Greek and Roman Empires warred over control of the area. I was stretching here but the Assyrians have warred over at least _part_ of Turkey. > [@](#): > > 1. Inhabitants have been relocated so many times their language has a word that describes their desperation. (Maybe Palestinians?) Another stretch but I didn’t take it to necessarily mean a diaspora was created. I allowed for internal dislocation. I’m not even sure _this_ happened. > [@](#): > > 1. In 2nd century Ptolemy included this place on the same map that indicated the location of the Ark. (This should be a dead giveaway, but I just don’t know it) This was what did it for me. I know the fundies love to ponder the the location and myth of the Ark and they usually locate it on Mount Ararat. I figured this is where Ptolemy put it. > [@](#): > > 1. Recently declared victory in a 6 year war, but economy has been severly wounded. I remember the Turks declaring the Kurds to be beaten when they got Occalan. That conflict has got to have lasted more than six years though no? It might come close and I couldn’t think of a recent, six year conflict off the top of my head. Mind you, I concede that ‘recent’ in a Middle Eastern context can subjectively encompass the Ottomans. Now the problem is that Tamerlane has rejected my suggestion. With regard to history, that tends to rock my confidence. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/6 "2004-04-06T02:46:21Z")
Clue 1. So it’s in the Middle East. Clue 2. Well, a lot of people round there have been dispossessed often. The Armenians, the Kurds, the Israelis, the Palestinians, obscure groups like the Druze, the Alawi and the Nestorians / Chaldaeans. Clue 3. Well, wouldn’t Ptolemy have indicated the location of many places in the Middle East? He would have used different names to today. Doesn’t really add to Clue 1. Clue 4. People declare victory all the time, irrespective of whether they’ve really won, so the real clue here is the six years - what wars have only been going since 1998? Kurds, Israelis, Palestinians etc have all been fighting for far longer than that. Nor do I know of a particular flare-up in any of those conflicts in 1998. For Israel / Palestine, the date would have to be 1948, 2000 or something. For the Kurds, the date could be 1991, just after the 2nd Gulf War. Doesn’t seem like there’s enough info here to give a meaningful, non-contentious answer. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/7 "2004-04-06T02:59:09Z")
I agree, **lambchops** , that’s why I said in the OP it was kinda vague. But this is my 12 y/o neice’s class we’re talking about, so it can’t be anything like ancient tribal wars or the like. Seems like Isreal and Turkey are the most likely. Where the hell is **Q.E.D.** when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/8 "2004-04-06T03:21:56Z")
> [@Gest](#): > > This was what did it for me. I know the fundies love to ponder the the location and myth of the Ark and they usually locate it on Mount Ararat. I figured this is where Ptolemy put it. Damned if you’re not right and we’re both wrong :D. The answer is… **ARMENIA** :). ( Though frankly that is stretching things for the Assyrians, though they did fight with states based in that region ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/9 "2004-04-06T03:24:55Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > ( Though frankly that is stretching things for the Assyrians, though they did fight with states based in that region ). > > - Tamerlane And double-checking I find I’m wrong yet again - the mind reels :D. The Assyrians appear to have extended at least loose dominion over that general region at least a couple of times. Shows what happens when you trust to rusty memory of old maps. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/10 "2004-04-06T03:27:03Z")
_A six-year bloody conflict with Azerbaijan that ended in a shaky ceasefire in 1994 still has not been resolved._ 😉 - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/11 "2004-04-06T03:32:43Z")
By the way, anyone willing to cut me a little slack if I said that I thought “Ark” was referring to the Ark of the Covenant :)? - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/12 "2004-04-06T03:47:13Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > _A six-year bloody conflict with Azerbaijan that ended in a shaky ceasefire in 1994 still has not been resolved._ > > 😉 > > - Tamerlane Who was it that fought the war? That sounds about right for the recent part. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/13 "2004-04-06T03:50:08Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Who was it that fought the war? That sounds about right for the recent part. Oh, sorry, I thought that was implied. It was between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/14 "2004-04-06T04:04:46Z")
OK, I’ll go with Armenia when she calls and update everyone when she finds out (usually Friday) Thanks again all. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/15 "2004-04-06T04:09:10Z")
Oh and of course Armenians also fit the diaspora model ( more or less ), though I have no idea what the word is in Armenian that refers to this. Not only was there the massacres and exodus after WW I, but the Byzantines regularly shuffled populations, including Armenians. Partially included under this we have the phenomena of the Kingdom of Little Armenia in Cilicia ( 1080-1375 ), in what is today southeastern Turkey, which arose from movement out of Armenia ( partly pushed ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/16 "2004-04-06T06:17:15Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Oh and of course Armenians also fit the diaspora model ( more or less ), though I have no idea what the word is in Armenian that refers to this. Not only was there the massacres and exodus after WW I, but the Byzantines regularly shuffled populations, including Armenians. Partially included under this we have the phenomena of the Kingdom of Little Armenia in Cilicia ( 1080-1375 ), in what is today southeastern Turkey, which arose from movement out of Armenia ( partly pushed ). > > - Tamerlane I’m almost afraid that you know all this. If you’re not Armenian or a serious history buff on central Asia, I think I’d rather not know. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/17 "2004-04-06T06:50:23Z")
The Armenian kingdom in what is today south-western Turkey pops up in some interesting books. You should try William Dalrymple’s “In Xanadu”, a good read all round. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/18 "2004-04-06T06:51:38Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I’m almost afraid that you know all this. If you’re not Armenian or a serious history buff on central Asia, I think I’d rather not know. 😃 I had to look up the dates ;). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Popup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Popup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Popup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/19 "2004-04-06T07:07:37Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Oh and of course Armenians also fit the diaspora model Didn’t Tigranes move around people quite a lot during the 1st century BC, as well, when he tried to replace his native armenians with ‘civilized’ greek-speaking tribes? (Or have I been misled by McColloughs ‘masters of Rome’?) ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470/20 "2004-04-06T13:39:53Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > By the way, anyone willing to cut me a little slack if I said that I thought “Ark” was referring to the Ark of the Covenant :)? > > - Tamerlane Sure, all the slack you want . 🙂 But my instinct on the mentioning of the Ark was Noah’s Ark. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the phrase “Ark of the Covenant” shortened to “The Ark”. YMMV. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-geography-question/238470.md?page=2)