# New HBO Series - Big Love **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294 "2006-02-13T17:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/21 "2006-02-13T21:25:23Z")
A character can be both horrifying and sympathetic, as Brian Cox’s character was in L.I.E. No one is one-dimensional. I’ll probably watch it since HBO does such good series, but I’m probably a sucker for it, since they’re also famous for canceling them just as they reach their peak of interest. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/22 "2006-02-13T21:35:07Z")
Which shows has HBO cancelled too soon? I’ve only been watching for about five years, but so far, they’ve kept everything I liked. What good stuff have I missed? (Thinking it’ll be available on DVD and I can check it out.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/23 "2006-02-13T21:45:59Z")
Carnivale comes instantly to mind. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/24 "2006-02-13T21:46:08Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Which shows has HBO cancelled too soon? I’ve only been watching for about five years, but so far, they’ve kept everything I liked. What good stuff have I missed? (Thinking it’ll be available on DVD and I can check it out.) 🙂 Carnivale for one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/25 "2006-02-13T21:46:34Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Apparently I’ve stepped into an alternate universe where it’s now acceptable to treat women like property again. I didn’t realize that respecting women as equals was considered to be “immflammatory” around here. No, I just don’t accept the idea that being a polygamist automatically means you’re treating women as property. We’ve got quite a few polyamorous posters on the dope, in a wide variety of relationships with a wide variety of genders involved. We’ve got at least one female poster who (if I understand her relationships correctly) considers herself to have both a husband and a wife. Is she treating her partners as property, because she has more than one? ---
**Author:** ![iluvurmom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iluvurmom/32/7276_2.png) [@iluvurmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iluvurmom)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/26 "2006-02-13T23:40:28Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > I really think HBO does a wonderful job with their Original Series and their movies (Angels in America, etc.), so count me in as looking forward to another great story line. I agree that having a show about something doesn’t necessarily glorify a practice some people find unpalatable, I think this will be another welcome learning experience for me (and many others) who are not privy to this type of family style. I totally agree, I have always found that HBO does a great job of bringing alternative ideas into a more spectrum, I remember when the woman of Sex in the City started showing viewers how woman really talk about sex, then Six Feet Under brought us a drama about a life of people we would have never had any idea about, who would have thought the Tony Soprano and his mafia man could ever find such a place in our damn hearts. I think this will be edgy, but for me it kind of appeals to a voyaristic side of things. I always trust HBO with these series, so I’m friggin stoked. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/27 "2006-02-13T23:44:20Z")
Wow…I’d like to feel bad for Diogenes getting dog piled in this thread… but he’d probably just think I was treating him like property or something. Recently on This American Life on NPR they interviewed a woman in a polygamist marriage. She’s one of three wives. She’s intelligent and a professional (she’s head of marketing at a Utah radio station IIRC). She does seem a little a crazy but hey… As long as everyone is happy and nobody gets hurt. Polygamy away pal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/28 "2006-02-13T23:57:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, I just don’t accept the idea that being a polygamist automatically means you’re treating women as property. We’ve got quite a few polyamorous posters on the dope, in a wide variety of relationships with a wide variety of genders involved. We’ve got at least one female poster who (if I understand her relationships correctly) considers herself to have both a husband and a wife. Is she treating her partners as property, because she has more than one? The GD thread got closed so let me respond here because you asked a similar question in the other thread. Just so it’s clear, I think that the polygamy is exploitive when one "husband’ is nominally the head of household for multiple “wives” who are expected to be faithful only to him. You can switch those genders around however you want but that’s how I view “polygamy” as opposed to other polyamorous paradigm which may or may not be exploitive but which will tend to lack intimacy (which is not immoral). In practice, I’m thinking about the Tom Green variety of polygamy where one creepy old man collects a harem of subservient sex partners who are not permitted relationships with anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/29 "2006-02-14T00:37:46Z")
> [@DtC](#): > > I don’t enjoy relationship dramas and unles there’s going to be lot of violence or something I just think I would be bored by this. I haven’t read the GD thread mentioned, but I am curios: in light of your previous comments, does this mean that if the main character merely has sex with his 3 wives than you find the show immoral and repugnant, but if he were to, say, kill them in a spectacular fashion that you’d be OK with it?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/30 "2006-02-14T00:44:37Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > I haven’t read the GD thread mentioned, but I am curios: in light of your previous comments, does this mean that if the main character merely has sex with his 3 wives than you find the show immoral and repugnant, but if he were to, say, kill them in a spectacular fashion that you’d be OK with it?😕 I wouldn’t find the show itself immoral or repugnant in either case. All I said was that I probably wouldn’t find the character sympathetic. That alone is not necessarily enough to turn me off of a show. I don’t find Tony Soprano to be very sympathetic either but he’s unsympathetic (to me) in a more interesting way. I don’t find polygamy, in itself, to be a particularly compelling subject. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/31 "2006-02-14T00:51:04Z")
…yet… you feel compelled to post your disdain… interesting. Just being snarky. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/32 "2006-02-14T01:10:27Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > …yet… you feel compelled to post your disdain… interesting. > > Just being snarky. I didn’t post any disdain for the show, _per se_, other than to say I wouldn’t find it interesting. I came into the thread because i was curious to find out about a new HBO show. When I found out what it was, I just meant to post a sentiment that “Ok, well this isn’t for me” and move on. The rest of my posts in this thread have been in response to direct questions subsequent to that one. So no…it’s not very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/33 "2006-02-14T02:29:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Women only agree to crap like that if they were raped as toddlers or something. It’s not healthy or normal. People make the same excuse about women who do porn. They seem to be doing it voluntarily but the majority of them are reenacting some kind of childhood trauma. A normal, healthy woman would normal self-esteem does not want to be part of a harem. > > If you had a daughter would you want her to be some dickhole’s wife number 3? :rolleyes: Please. As stated above by **Push You Down** , that there are some very successful and well adjusted women who are involved in polygamous marriages. To claim they are all ‘raped as toddlers’ or women who do porn are the same is incredibly ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/34 "2006-02-14T03:32:40Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The fact that some women might (superficially) seem to accept being degraded in such a fashion does not make the practice less degrading to them. It’s also a crime… Only if they’re underage or he tried to get 3 marriage licenses. From what I’ve heard he’s only legally married to 1 wife to other 2 are “spiritual wives”. Also they’re not LDS, they’re supposed to be members of one of the breakaway groups. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/35 "2006-02-14T11:57:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Women only agree to crap like that if they were raped as toddlers or something. It’s not healthy or normal. People make the same excuse about women who do porn. They seem to be doing it voluntarily but the majority of them are reenacting some kind of childhood trauma. A normal, healthy woman would normal self-esteem does not want to be part of a harem. > > If you had a daughter would you want her to be some dickhole’s wife number 3? We had this conversation in another thread, so I’ll just leave this one alone. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/36 "2006-02-14T19:30:06Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > in a sequence rather than coincidental (or whatever the word should be). Serially rather than concurrently? ---
**Author:** ![iluvurmom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iluvurmom/32/7276_2.png) [@iluvurmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iluvurmom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/37 "2006-02-14T19:45:51Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I wouldn’t find the show itself immoral or repugnant in either case. All I said was that I probably wouldn’t find the character sympathetic. That alone is not necessarily enough to turn me off of a show. I don’t find Tony Soprano to be very sympathetic either but he’s unsympathetic (to me) in a more interesting way. I don’t find polygamy, in itself, to be a particularly compelling subject. Your screenname is all too appropriate – the Cynic. I just think that whether you plan on watching the show or not – you have clearly made your colored statements a bit soon. We know next to nothing about this show. I must say that all of the other original series that have given us an edgy look at an “alternative-type of family” or lifestyle have ended up being huge sucesses. I think this will follow suit. I think back to Sopranos when it first began, I would have though the main focus would have been the Mafia, but as the series progressed HBO had a way of making you see the mafia through the eyes of that family, as just one piece of many in their lives. I can guess polymagy will be a lot like that is this series. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/38 "2006-02-14T23:57:34Z")
I find the very premise of this show to be the most tasteless ever done on television. It’s about a very complex family dynamic and promises innovative scripts… and it stars _Bill Paxton_? That’s sick and wrong. That said, I think the show could be incredibly good. Of course I’m biased as I’ve always been absolutely fascinated by the Mormon Fundamentalist lifestyle, and I agree that in most cases the women are not equal to the men and are unfortunately somebody’s second wife and the mother of five kids before they figure out it doesn’t have to be this way, but at the same time I don’t believe the men are all evil or that the women are all eye lowering submissive drones. This is a unique subculture that I’ve long wanted to write something about myself. I think it will be interesting to see how much publicity Warren Jeffs (recently moved onto the FBI’s Most Wanted list but yet to break the top 10) gets as a result of the show. I’m also curious as to whether the characters will be members of a cultlike sect like Jeffs or more independent like Alex Joseph’s wives (many of whom were college educated and of legal age before wedding him). If I were to write it the first year’s story arc would be the man realizing that maybe his Prophet is a deeply flawed man and trying to figure out how to extricate himself from the situation when he has three women he loves and many children to support and he really can’t live with them on the outside world and the inside world is stifling and corrupt. And it’d star Harvey Fierstein as the zany next door neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/39 "2006-02-15T00:06:32Z")
PS- If I were writing the show, I would have the father come to a crisis of conscience when his own oldest son is exiled from the community and becomes one of [The Lost Boys](http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1505997,00.html). Warren Jeffs is in the news daily and is easily googled for those who don’t know who he is, but [here’s info on Alex Joseph](http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/registration/register.jsp?fw=http://www.azfamily.com/video/archives-polygamy.html) (requires registration). [Very good memoir](http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1505997,00.html) by the daughter of a polygamous leader. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294/40 "2006-02-15T00:08:28Z")
Oops! [This is the memoir](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393049469/sr=8-1/qid=1139961910/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9500806-4855023?%5Fencoding=UTF8). Dorothy Solomon was the middle child of of 48 children of Rulon Allred, who was murdered by the incredibly brutal and inbred [Lebaron](http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/ervil_lebaron_cult/index.html) sect. These people are most definitely fascinating and rarely what you’d call enviable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-hbo-series-big-love/344294.md?page=3)