# New Human Speices? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 10, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255 "2007-07-10T20:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/1 "2007-07-10T20:18:31Z")
What would it take for there to be classified a new human species. There have been several other _Homo_ genus species that have walked the earth, _Home erectus, Home habilis, etc._, often concurrently. Currently _Home sapiens sapiens_ is the only one left. How would we know or recognize a new species? Would it necessarily evolve from our species or from some “lower” life form, primate or such? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/2 "2007-07-10T20:25:35Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] How would we know or recognize a new species? Would it necessarily evolve from our species or from some “lower” life form, primate or such? [/QUOTE] We would know it because it would not normally interbreed to produce fertile offspring. This would require a) prolonged isolation of 100s of 1000s of years or b) significant genetic engineering. One might argue, though, that the Biological Species Concept can’t really be applied to genetically engineered organisms. Presumably by the time we develop that technology, we’d be able to artificially breed incompatible species, too. It would have to evolve from us to be in the genus _Homo_. You can’t evolve from one one genus into another, already existing, genus. That’s just the convention. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/3 "2007-07-10T20:33:26Z")
It would have to branch off of our own at this point. Something else (gibbon-derived, say) that was humanlike, intelligent, speaking, etc., would simply be a different intelligent, humanoid (not hominid) species. As to the declaration: probably the creatures would have to be able to breed with each other but be incapable of producing fertile offspring with mainstream humans. There are several definitions of “species,” but this is almost certainly the one that would be applied in this case. Otherwise, we’d just call them human. How would it happen? There would have to be some major isolation from the rest of humanity. Probably on the order of 100,000 to 1 million years, I’d guess, since there’s a chance that some of the Australian migrants were separated for as much as 50,000 years, with no speciation. A trip to Alpha Centauri, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![melvin\_coznowski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@melvin\_coznowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melvin_coznowski)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/4 "2007-07-10T20:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Presumably by the time we develop that technology, we’d be able to artificially breed incompatible species, too. [/QUOTE] I would think they’d be _relatively_ compatible, no? Like a human and chimp, or dogs and cats. Otherwise, you might be breeding a human with a petunia, or maybe with a virus (wouldn’t _that_ be weird?!) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/5 "2007-07-10T20:44:25Z")
[QUOTE=melvin coznowski] I would think they’d be _relatively_ compatible, no? [/quote] Pure speculation, of course, but… maybe at first, but probably not later on. The thing is, though, once you start tinkering with species thru genetic engineering, it’s probably time to develop a new definition of what a species is. I’m not sure our current definitions would make sense. We already, by convention, just lump domesticated populations in with their most closely related, wild population. > [@](#): > > Like a human and chimp, or dogs and cats. Otherwise, you might be breeding a human with a petunia, or maybe with a virus (wouldn’t _that_ be weird?!) How are you? _I’m a virus._ You mean you have a virus. \*No, I am a virus. \* 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/6 "2007-07-10T21:58:24Z")
> [@](#): > > It would have to evolve from us to be in the genus Homo. You can’t evolve from one one genus into another, already existing, genus. That’s just the convention. Well, there are at least two other _Homo_ species which survived until very, very recently. There might be some miniscule chance (much less than 1%) that an enclave of _H. neanderthalis_ or _H. floriensis_ might still be around somewhere, in some remote corner of the world. If we ever were to discover such an enclave, they would fit the OP’s criteria. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-human-speices/411255/7 "2007-07-10T23:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Well, there are at least two other _Homo_ species which survived until very, very recently. There might be some miniscule chance (much less than 1%) that an enclave of _H. neanderthalis_ or _H. floriensis_ might still be around somewhere, in some remote corner of the world. If we ever were to discover such an enclave, they would fit the OP’s criteria. [/QUOTE] Three. We have _H. erectus_ in Asia about as recently as _H. neanderthalensis_ in Europe. And, just a nitpick, but it’s _neanderthalensis_ and _floresiensis_. My wag would be that we have a better chance of cloning a Neanderthal from fossilized DNA than we do of finding some extant population somewhere.