# New idea: Shoot, shovel, and shut up. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 2, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765 "2015-01-02T13:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![48Willys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/db5fbb/32.png) [@48Willys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/48Willys)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/41 "2015-01-03T21:48:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Now a neighbor who likes to blab and brag about doing this talked too much and the local game warden came out and issues a citation and took his gun. > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Is that the whole story? IANAL, but that doesn’t sound like “due process” to me. SOP. Note that he was cited. He MAY get his rifle back after appering in court. The “due process” is not done yet. For now he does not have that rifle to commit more crimes with. While I may not agree, but the thinking is that he will think more about his actions since it may cost him a rifle, or whatever the “gun” was. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/42 "2015-01-03T21:51:42Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Canada Geese (not Canadian) are federally protected. Shooting one without the proper permits can be very expensive. But they are _such_ assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/43 "2015-01-03T22:33:28Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > But they are _such_ assholes. Like all Canadians. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/44 "2015-01-04T01:07:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Like all Canadians. 🙂 Hey, now, I hardly ever fly south and poop all over people’s yards! ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/45 "2015-01-04T01:22:39Z")
From what I’ve seen in a situation where the animals truly are a nuisance, there isn’t a need to shut up, It’s kind of expected that you will do what it takes. For example the ranchers I knew hated hole-making animals, because of the danger of cattle stepping in the hole and breaking a leg. They just carried a gun in the truck, and whenever they saw a Gopher or Badger or whatever, they just killed it, and filled in the burrow enterance if they could find it. They’d have probably loved stupid geese around though, give the coyotes something fat and stupid to catch instead of their calves. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/46 "2015-01-04T02:31:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Canada Geese (not Canadian) are federally protected. Shooting one without the proper permits can be very expensive. > > [http://www.wildgoosechasers.com/law.php](http://www.wildgoosechasers.com/law.php) > > It’s one thing to avoid local vermin laws, but messing with the Feds seems like a pretty silly way to go. The penalties can be severe. Do Canada geese poop as much as the Canadian ones? When I was working down at the Science Center, sometimes on nice days I’d walk over from downtown rather than taking the second bus, and there was goose poop EVERYWHERE. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/47 "2015-01-04T02:44:08Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Lets say your a landowner who often deals with pest animals like feral dogs, cats, various wild animals, or Canadian geese deciding to make your pond their permanent home and crapping zone. These animals can cause disease, kill domestic animals or prefered wildlife, or just be a general nuisance (ex. a family of skunks in your barn). Trapping or scaring them off usually only works to a point so to deal with them you have little choice but to shoot and kill them. > > Now a neighbor who likes to blab and brag about doing this talked too much and the local game warden came out and issues a citation and took his gun. So the other neighbors have adopted a “shoot, shovel, shut up” approach where if you are forced to shoot a feral animal, you quickly bury it and dont tell anyone and for Petes sake dont blab it at the local cafe. > > Anyone else tried this? I remember one incident when a racoon invaded a garbage container in our neighborhood and some young lady who worked for Animal Control stopped by to consult with us on how to deal with that animal. I recall asking her if the Racoon was considered vermin and if so, whether or not it posed a danger to the children in the neighborhood because it could pass on some disease to them if it bit them. If so, I asked her what would be wrong with just shooting it and burying it. She looked at me as if I was some serial killer and would not answer my question and would not speak to me again. I definitely got the impression that she thought I might have been the very worst person in the world. If she truly felt that way, I have two questions I’d like to ask. 1. What is she doing working for Animal Control? Why would she choose that kind of job if she feels so strongly against shooting animals that can be dangerous to humans? 2. Wouldn’t the entire neighborhood be better off if someone just shot it and buried it and said nothing more about it? I have seen what a Racoon can do when it bites a human and it sure isn’t pretty. That is assuming it is disease-free. But if it had Rabies or some other disease, wouldn’t the victim have to go to a hospital to get checked out? Wouldn’t the victim have to go to a hospital to get checked out regardless? I mean we don’t know if it is diseased. Racoons can inflict a Hell of a lot of damage on a human - never mind a human child. In any case, she put on these very heavy gloves and went to move the Racoon out of the garbage container. It reared up and hissed at her. Seemed like a clear warning that it was going to bite her. But it didn’t. I really just didn’t understand. But from now on, the one thing I will certainlly do if this happens again is to keep my mouth shut. No matter what I choose to do, I will def not tell anyone about it. I’ll do it in secret and forgo the thanks that I think the neighbors would want to give me. But I sure don’t want to see a Racoon attacking any of the neighbor kids if they stumble over one by accident. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/48 "2015-01-04T06:47:50Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Is that the whole story? IANAL, but that doesn’t sound like “due process” to me. I dont know. It happened years ago. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/49 "2015-01-04T13:14:30Z")
The Canada geese problem is one of our own making, as are the raccoons in the trash. We’ve killed (and are still killing) the predators of these creatures, and we set up lovely safe food-filled havens for them. And then we bitch about them?? The geese don’t need to migrate anymore, those beautiful corporate ponds are lovely year round habitat, and the goslings don’t have snapping turtles and foxes to worry about. If the ponds happen to be part of an industrial complex on the edge of town, it’s just a short hop the farming area where there’s plenty of delicious feed available. The raccoons are opportunistic omnivores (much like humans) and are smart enough to hang around easy food sources, especially if there are lovely safe dens around. For the most part they don’t WANT to attack people, they just want to live their lives. And if the scary big male coon on the block gets shot, guess what? There’ll be another one very happy to take over his territory in the blink of an eye. Keep your garbage contained - tightly. Close up holes under buildings, don’t let sheds stand abandoned. Keep fancy ponds to a minimum, and employ scaring techniques (dogs, motion sensor noises etc) We are supposed to be smarter than the wildlife, this shouldn’t be that hard! ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/50 "2015-01-04T13:59:45Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Such as keeping feed in chew-proof containers & cleaning up dropped feed to discourage rats. Not leaving pet food out over night for the coons and possums to eat. Those two things should also help discourage roaming cats. Closing off areas where skunks might want to den. Getting dogs or noisemakers to make ponds unfriendly to Canada Geese (Thank you **Telemark** , that’s a pet peeve too 🙂 ) > > Such as calling the animal control folks EVERY time you see a stray dog, and making sure your property has dog-proof perimeter fencing. Contact a TNR group if you have a feral cat problem, though a few cats around a farm are useful. > > Shall I go on? what about your crops? how are you going to protect those? > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I remember one incident when a racoon invaded a garbage container in our neighborhood and some young lady who worked for Animal Control stopped by to consult with us on how to deal with that animal. > > I recall asking her if the Racoon was considered vermin and if so, whether or not it posed a danger to the children in the neighborhood because it could pass on some disease to them if it bit them. > > If so, I asked her what would be wrong with just shooting it and burying it. She looked at me as if I was some serial killer and would not answer my question and would not speak to me again. > > I definitely got the impression that she thought I might have been the very worst person in the world. your city/township probably has an ordinance against discharging a firearm in residential areas. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/51 "2015-01-04T14:19:34Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > what about your crops? how are you going to protect those? > . Noisemakers, dogs (there are teams specifically trained to harass geese and move them on) and convince neighbors to make their surrounding areas unfriendly to birds seeking a safe nesting area. Geese won’t bother standing corn, don’t know about soybeans or other crops, but they do like newly harvested fields where there might be dropped grain. I’m not saying that it isn’t a giant PITA, just that it can be done without killing, and that it needs to be a community effort. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/52 "2015-01-04T14:35:35Z")
> [@saje](#): > > The Canada geese problem is one of our own making, as are the raccoons in the trash. > > We’ve killed (and are still killing) the predators of these creatures, and we set up lovely safe food-filled havens for them. And then we bitch about them?? … It seems to me that IF we’ve reduced / eliminated their natural predators THEN there’s nothing wrong with us substituting our own predation pressure. That too needs to be a community effort. One landowner killing all the pests he/she can find while the neighbors actively or passively feed, house, and therefore breed them is unproductive. If everybody gets behind the cull the problem is easily managed with only low periodic effort. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/53 "2015-01-04T17:20:19Z")
Possibly. Except that man is (generally speaking) a lousy predator when it comes to population health of the prey species. We kill the fat & strong, not the old, weak and sick. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/54 "2015-01-04T18:54:56Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Except that man is (generally speaking) a lousy predator when it comes to population health of the prey species. We kill the fat & strong, not the old, weak and sick. Hey, it’s a _feature_. The old, weak and sick will die soon enough on their own, it’s the young/strong/healthy that will hang around breeding MORE of them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/55 "2015-01-04T19:32:22Z")
There’s a family recipe for raccoon. They have four drumsticks. Canada geese fed by humans are pretty tasty. Swans taste like roast beef (this is hearsay). I’m too lazy to do any of this but if I got hungry enough, it could happen;) I’ve a friend who has a business chasing geese- kayaks and border collies. The company contracts with insurance companies, who have nice big green grassy lawns and attractive waterways with cattails, goose heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765/56 "2015-01-09T01:17:53Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Canada Geese (not Canadian) are federally protected. Shooting one without the proper permits can be very expensive. > > [http://www.wildgoosechasers.com/law.php](http://www.wildgoosechasers.com/law.php) > > It’s one thing to avoid local vermin laws, but messing with the Feds seems like a pretty silly way to go. The penalties can be severe. Honest, they all flew into this recently dug ditch and died on impact. Darndest thing I ever saw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-idea-shoot-shovel-and-shut-up/708765.md?page=2)