New! Improved!

I don’t drink soft drinks.
But every dialysis they insist on bringing every patient one. It’s to keep your blood sugar from going to the dump. I have other ways to do that. So Ivy generally drinks them.
Yesterday they brought me a “new and improved” Fresca.
Completely rebranded product. My memory tells me if was awful back in the day.
I sipped some of it.
It ain’t half bad.

I think it’s a successful “new and improved” product.

You said:
“you do not have to use the f- bomb in every paragraph to emphasize your point” hence my challenge for you to cite its presence in every paragraph. I think I am metered in my use of profanity – which your comment seems to suggest otherwise.

As you also said, you “know why” I’m using it. You’re not challenging that this is what folks think when they encounter such “new and improved” pronouncements.

My mom would agree with my sentiment – despite never having uttered the word (that I know of). As I stated, it goes beyond mild annoyance or disbelief at the changes. She would cringe if I spoke like early Eddie Murphy “in every paragraph”.

It’s hardly outrage. It is (I believe) a reflection of what many (most?) folks think about these rejiggerings, moving products around in stores, etc.

I don’t know anyone who wakes up and thinks, “Gee, lets make a nice DAY of shopping!” Rather, most folks seem to find it increasingly annoying: “Why is it so hard to SPEND MONEY on the items that you want?”

Should we all sit in silent acceptance leading others who think similarly to believe themselves the only ones who feel that way?

Do you like it when Trader Joes stops carrying a product that you’ve been buying there? Or, opts for a new vendor who obviously produces a different formulation? (I returned a bag of coffe beans to Costco, yesterday, because they changed vendors and the “new” product is vastly inferior. How would I know that without making the purchase? Or, should I unilaterally avoid anything that has been – or MIGHT have been – changed since the last purchase?)

Are you sure that companies don’t do it because customers DON’T complain?

When I get to the checkout, it seems a habit for the cashier to ask “Did you find everything, OK?” – almost as if inquiring about the weather. I’ve taken to telling them exactly which items I was not able to find. Often, they will offer to have someone locate the item (likely moved to a new location) for me. “No thanks. I’ll purchase it somewhere else”

Do you think vendors would change their practices if everyone who had a similar experience made a similar comment? I’m sure they won’t if no one does!

As for the Cheerios, I don’t see any boxes labeled as “Classic Cheerios”.

Cheerios has names on them now- son, grandma, abuelo, bestie. Weird.

Well. Ok

I’m sorry your life is so hard.
Maybe take your comfort animal with you to shop next time.

I’m kidding you. :smiling_face:
You’re right. If enough people complain things would change.

Good luck getting that many folks to give a crap.

Honestly, there’s middle ground, but not a lot of it.

MOST of the time, if a company is putting a large emphasis on a “New and Improved!” version of something, they’re trying to get ahead of some change that they know is going to piss off (even if it is arguably better!) the existing base: most people just flat out are uncomfortable with change after all. By branding it as an improvement in giant letters, they may offset some of that group.

A slightly more common options these days, and (IMHO) more likely to be an actual improvement to me at least, is a variant of the main product while keeping the original. Recent-ish example is Coke Zero. I do find it better, and more “Coke” like than diet Coke - so from some POV, it is indeed New and Improved (better taste than Diet, less sugar issues than the original) - but these sort of things aren’t generally labeled as New And Improved. Because they are distinguishing it from the other variants rather than replacing them.

So anyway, I look at most examples where the change is Emphasized on the Packaging as a big caution flag.

And that’s leaving out how a lot of times that the language is being applied NOT to the contents, but to the packaging. I see a number of times where they take about using new and used packaging as less wasteful of resources, but the fact that they often tell me that the quantity of the contents remain the same remind me of how many times the reduced packaging is part and parcel of the shrinkflation (I’m talking about all the times I’ve seen “improved” packaging while they carefully don’t mention that I’m getting 20% less contents!).

So, yes, not so much of an improvement there.

Aside on heart-shaped Cheerios, last time I looked both types were side-by-side at my local mega mart, with about 2-3x the number of classic Cheerios to the heart shaped sorts. That was temporarily flipped during the leadup to Valentine’s day, but is back to normal. So, do look at the packaging and you should be fine.

AH!! That went right over my head until I saw your comment! :rofl:

It isn’t. We consider ourselves “blessed”; no health issues, no debt, enough cash to buy anything we might want, nothing that we actually don’t already HAVE, good friends, no family issues, addictions, etc.

It’s what motivates us to donate time (and money) to other causes.

Sadly, they left about a decade ago. Though, I keep their spirits with me,
constantly – talking to them throughout the day, questioning them as to whether “we” should have pasta or a steak, having them accompany me on my walks, etc.

When shopping, I tell them, “All right, full invisibility mode now… no sniffing other people’s legs!”

:person_shrugging: My way of coping with the loss.

You have to start somewhere! Since I started being vocal about these sorts of things, I’ve discovered many friends/neighbors have similarly altered their behaviors – to the detriment of the “offenders”:

  • “Oh, we stopped shopping there long ago!”
  • “No, they never have more than a handful of sale items; ignore their published sales”
  • “We let the manager know each time we feel disappointed by their service”
  • “Yeah, they used to mail an ad. Then, you needed a membership card for certain items. Then, had to have an app to get those same items! Now, they don’t even mail out the ad, expecting you to look for it online. There are a dozen other stores in the same travel radius so we just shop at one of those, instead!”
  • “We stopped going there when they installed the self-check kiosks.”
    etc.

So, people are changing. But, doing so silently. I wonder if the stores are actually noticing or if the change just looks like “noise in the signal”?

[E.g., Costco has got to have noticed that we have stopped certain purchases, there. And, must know that we aren’t “doing without” those items – coffee being the most recent]

I swear up a blue streak myself sometimes, as is my right as an American, but I find it to be less frequent now that I have a kid. The problem with swearing via text is people sometimes think you’re angry, especially if I’m disagreeing with them. I guess not everyone comes from a culture of casual swearing. But I do, and I like it.

Thanks, I will have to check. As it wasn’t the sort of thing that I consumed regularly, my “heart experience” has led me to assume it’s a permanent change, for the worse (like the funny Trix shapes). We’ll see when they screw up Rice Krispies!

[Have you seen the number of different flavors of cheerios??? :roll_eyes: ]

As I said, why dick with something that folks have been buying AND COUNTING ON BUYING for years? “Gee, let’s sell eggs in quantities of 10 and color their shells in various pastel colors!”

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/the-science-of-swearing
https://theconversation.com/the-power-of-swearing-how-obscene-words-influence-your-mind-body-and-relationships-192104
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/03/1179979721/you-should-probably-be-swearing-more

Etc.

They have Wendys Frosty cereal.

Round Cheerios will never stop being made.

Too many toddlers demand it.

Yep. Gotta stop cursing around the children.
They can and will repeat it at the most inopportune occasions.

George Carlin (I think): “What were we using before? Old and shitty?”

mmm

In the 60’s, Mad Magazine had an article about what advertisers
said about their products before they improved them. Like, “there’s gotta be a way to make this taste better, and we’re working on finding it!”

I don’t see the apps or self checkout going away.

If you don’t buy it, make a reservation at restaurant. 20 people are in line behind you.

All print material in the way of newspapers are on the way out, sorry.

Don’t you have a computer or smart phone? This stuff ain’t that hard. I’m as un-techy as you get and I figured it out.
I showed a elderly lady how to use the Taco Bell kiosk today. And I’m speech impaired. She understood in 2 minutes.

Apparently, the vendors are realizing that the self-check kiosks arent saving them any money and are irritating customers. Consider that an employee has to supervise some number of kiosks. Tech support has to maintain them (there is ALWAYS at least one that is “down”). Customers are slower getting out the door and irritated to do the extra work. AND, customers are stealing – not ringing up every product, ringing up some other UPC for a particular item, etc.

There have been a few stories about it.

But, now they are “stuck”. Turning around is painful (hello stockholders! Remember those big investments that we made to save money? Well, we have to eat those as losses…)

Apps? They are likely to stay if only because they let the store track your location as you move through the store – where you went, who you are, when you last visited, where you paused to look at something, etc. (there’s a reason they offer free wifi! :grin:)

I’m not sure I understand the restaurant reference…

No one reads print newspapers. However, print ADS seem to be just as prevalent. We still get several grocery store ads, furniture store ads, “valupak coupons”, etc.

We have many computers and several smartphones. But, don’t install data plans on the phones (yet another attack surface and source of information/privacy leakage). We don’t allow SMS, either (why would I want to give folks ANOTHER way to pester me?). Our ISP has no limits on the amount of data transfered – we use about 20G daily! There’s litle convenience to being able to check a vendor’s website “while away from home” given that we could do the same WHILE home, prior to departing.

It’s not a question of technical prowess. I worked on the design of the automated gas pumps at Arco stations 40 years ago, have designed slot machines, etc. Rather, we just don’t want to play that game.

I’ll drive 40 minutes – each way – tomorrow to visit the oriental market. I have no idea what the prices will be and no way of finding out – they don’t list them anywhere but on the actual products. And, no way to check inventory; if the items I want aren’t on the shelf, too bad for me! A smartphone isn’t going to alter that reality!

You in a WPP?
What they gonna do if they track you? Egads. A sale on a product you like?

That seems like a plus to me.

I don’t think big shopping Robot gonna bite you.
You’re being photographed every where you go. Maybe from one of your many computers or your ring doorbell or Alexa.
If you have a halfway modern car it’s tracked. If you buy anything with a card you’re tracked.
Been to your doctor and pharmacist?
Order from Amazon lately? Watch a couple YouTubes? Download a favorite song? Streamed on your TV? Facebook. Reddit. TikTok. X. And about a million more?
Even borrow a book at the public library?

We’re already had. May as well avail yourself of the conveniences. Get that coffee on sale at Costco. It’ll be ok.
Unless you got stuff to hide there’s no real reason to worry.

The only one that hacks me off is Campbell’s cream soups. It’s been a long time now, but at one point they made it “creamier!” Well, they did, but now it tastes like chemicals to me

You misunderstand the meaning and intent of tracking.

I care nothing about folks monitoring my physical position when out in public. Even if your car doesn’t tattle on your location, cameras and license plate readers are all legal and their results can be correlated. My neighbors can tell my other half who came and went during the day – as I can about them. And my movements – at least on this street.

I dress in essentially the same (identical!) distinctive style EVERY DAY (except wash day). So, neighbors with poor vision can still recognize me at a distance.

Your location reveals very little about you – unless you are coming out of some known crime scene or particular place of business. Or, as below, your old girlfriend’s house!

But, your activities speak volumes. Who you talk to, what you talk about, what time of day, what you eat, where you shop, where you buy your clothes, how often you have your hair cut, etc.

I’m automating the house. I will be able to tell (anyone!) how much time you spend in any given room, what you are likely doing there, how often you piss, shit, eat, sleep, WHAT you eat – and when, how often you wander out to check your mailbox, who you talk to on the phone, the content of each of those calls, etc. As a single datapoint, these things mean very little. But, when you address data-in-the-large, they reveal all sorts of things about you that YOU may not even know – yet.

Yours is the attitude of yong people who have “given up”. Many have yet to realize the consequences of that surrender. Perhaps when they go to apply for a mortgage and no one will give them a good rate (“Our data suggests you don’t take good care of your personal health. This correlates with taking poor care of your financial health. We see that as an increased risk…”) Or, when they are in line for an organ transplant and the data suggests they have a substance abuse problem or poor eating habits that might make the decision to award them a (scarce) organ less likely.

Or, facebook/tinder/whatever discloses their assessment of you to a potential date/mate – and, they err on the side of avoiding you because your behaviors suggested (to facebook et al.) you may be a spouse abuser (based on correlation with data obtained from KNOWN spouse abusers). Or, a drunk. Or, a poor earner. Or, heavily in debt. Things that you LIKELY wouldn’t discover on your own until you had lost any chance of influencing the outcome.

You have no control over how your data is used and interpreted. And, can’t take it back, after the fact (at least in the US).

And, there are no guarantees that it is CORRECT or that the models have a rational basis. Ask ChatGPT why it decided to utter whatever it did. And, to explain why it hallucinates.

People with access to LOTS of data about behaviors and activities AND other “important” data that you likely don’t think about (e.g., what your current debt load is, your monthly electric bill, number of times you visit a drug store, whether you frequent a health-food store, exercise, take yoga, attend AA meetings, visit dispensaries, get your hair done, etc.)

A bunch of data that, in itself, is meaningless – for ONE individual.

But, with exactly the same technologies used in the LLMs that are in the news, one can correlate observations about YOU with observations about OTHERS.
“People who pee more than 6 times a day are likely to have prostate problems”
“People who snack in the middle of the night are likely diabetic or prediabetic”
“People who drive red cars and shop at target are more likely to be addicted to recreational drugs”.
etc. No one will be able to explain why particular correlations exist – just like an LLM AI can’t tell you why it said what it said; it just noticed a pattern and doesn’t understand “why”.

But, with big data, you can get some reasonably high degrees of correlation – especially if you can make LOTS of observations! Hence how ChatGPT can APPEAR to be intelligent.

Why do you think your insurance company wants to give you a FREE device that monitors for “power line disturbances” in your home? Or, your electric/gas company wants to give you a free thermostat? Or, google wants to read your email? Or, keep track of who you are calling using google phone? Or, which web sites you are visiting – and when?

Data has value to them, regardless of whether its content makes any obvious sense. If it has value to them, it most definitely has a cost to you! They are in business to make money. That money has to come from somewhere/someone!

Once you have data and number crunch for the correlations (old technology, just bigger computers), you can make enhanced predictions about a person – ANY person. That is valuable to others as it can introduce a positive bias in the expected value of their interactions with you. If you could predict which way a coin would land with 51% reliability, you have a big edge over someone who is stuck with simple “chance” (50%).

If an insurer can deduce that you are 1% more likely to cost them $X, they can factor that into your premium - and share that risk assessment with other insurers so there’s no other options for you to avoid their assessment. You might think this unfair as the data hasn’t been PROVEN to represent your risk, as an individual. But, you won’t even know it is being done. And, will be helpless to do anything about it: “Members of the Select Committee, we set our pricing schedule based on an assessment of the following data points that we have correlated with these particular cost factors. Obviously, we are just trying to control our risk and get a fair return on our money. It is wrong of you to prevent us from using these observations that have, effectively, been VOLUNTARILY disclosed to us as agreed to in our EULA!”

Why do you think teenage males have higher auto insurance premiums? Why there are student discounts? Accident free discounts? etc. The ACTUARY hired by the insurance firm has correlated these trivial characteristics with their KNOWN history of associated costs. They can’t swear that you will cost them $X; but, they can be more sure than not that you will!

And, no, we have no facebook, linkedin, tiktok, twitter, reddit, etc. accounts. We “own” all of our music so there is no need to download anything. We don’t use any streaming services or cable – so, no one knows what (or if!) we are watching or listening to. HIPPA protects what our medical professionals can disclose and to whom, and for what purposes. No alexa. Possibly 8 amazon orders annually (no prime). Maybe an equivalent number of eBay purchases. Yet, we dont feel that we are deprived or constrained in any way.

If you have nothing to hide, you should have no problems releasing your tax returns to the public – after all, that’s just PRIVACY (which you seem to be implying is unimportant/forfeit). And, having your bank statements mailed to you on the backs of postcards. Surely anyone with accecss to the details of where you work, how long you’ve been there, what your peers are earning, etc. could make a pretty good guess!

Your spouse should have no qualms about installing a tracking app in your phone to know WHERE you are; and a keylogger on it (or your computer) to track your electronic transactions.

After all, this is your SPOUSE! Who could you possibly trust more??

[A friend once made the same “nothing to hide” argument to me, claiming HE had nothing to hide. I offered up these same examples. And, finished with, "And why haven’t you told your wife WHY you were at your previous girlfriend’s house the NIGHT BEFORE YOUR WEDDING??? Ooops! Maybe you DO have something to hide, eh?]

People who think they have nothing to hide are just self-deluding.