# New Iraqi Flag... WHY ? WHY now ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581 "2004-04-28T23:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/1 "2004-04-28T23:48:16Z")
There is another thread about the [New Flag](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/26/world/Iraqflag_040426) in the BBQ pit: [Proof George W. Bush is colonizing Iraq](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=253142) I think a serious thread is needed about this subject. I seriously want to know who had the brilliant idea of “giving” Iraq a new flag smack in the middle of a violent uprising ? ``` Are there callous bureaucrats with little notion of timing ? Or are their US officials who want to see more bloodshed ? What is there to gain by this for the US occupation ? Humiliating Iraqis is sport ? Do they think putting white flags will mean pacified Iraqis ? Giving Kurds a yellow stripe of the flag will make 'em even better allies ? Can this be seen as anything but total insanity ? Maybe give Iraqi nationalism a new boost... around the old flag ? Give me one good reason for this ? ``` ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/2 "2004-04-28T23:55:57Z")
From your cite: > [@](#): > > Iraq’s governing council has picked a new flag for the country Call it a puppet government or what have you, these are \*\*Iraqis \*\* making decisions, not “US officials” per your OP. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/3 "2004-04-29T00:00:06Z")
There is only one. The mortally wounded hope that Iraqi “nationalism” will be the trump card, that pumping up the mirage of the State of Iraq as superceding petty tribal and religious squabbles will make the dream fact. And somehow, the Iraqi people will regard the handing of sovereignty to someone who promises not to try and use it as something akin to democracy. Perhaps democracy’s severely deranged brother, who they keep in the attic. They overlook a ground fact: Saddam _was_ Iraq, Iraq only existed because of the ruthless and absolute grip of Saddam. There was no Iraq without Saddam, there is no nation to profess loyalty _to_. They fear the future, they fear each other, they hate our guts, and they aren’t even grateful. And…for the love of Christ!..didn’t anybody…_anybody_?..notice the distinct resemblance between the “New! Improved!” Iraq flag and the flag of Israel? Surely somebody must have noticed! This does for dumb what the Pacific does for wet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/4 "2004-04-29T00:01:27Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > …, these are \*\*Iraqis \*\* making decisions, not “US officials” per your OP. Ever see Lambchop tell Shari Lewis to go fuck herself? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/5 "2004-04-29T00:09:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > From your cite: > > Call it a puppet government or what have you, these are \*\*Iraqis \*\* making decisions, not “US officials” per your OP. Who put these Iraqis in “charge” ? The US ! Oh my God… so they don’t have a lot of legitimacy do they ? They could have waited for the June 30 at least ? It clearly comes across as a US not Iraqi decision, even if it was iraqis. At least they could have done a pretty flag ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/6 "2004-04-29T00:14:57Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Who put these Iraqis in “charge” ? The US ! Oh my God… so they don’t have a lot of legitimacy do they ? They could have waited for the June 30 at least ? It clearly comes across as a US not Iraqi decision, even if it was iraqis. > > At least they could have done a pretty flag ? That’s a strange way of saying “Yes, you are right. My bad. I should not have said they were US officials.” Or are you a “no mistakes” poster? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/7 "2004-04-29T00:18:01Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Call it a puppet government or what have you, these are \*\*Iraqis \*\* making decisions, not “US officials” per your OP. There are just not enough rolleye smilies in the world for this one. I agree with the OP: it’s unneeded and aggravating right now. Many Iraqis not in the puppet government are upset about it. Oh, and it’s ugly and its mother dresses it funny. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/8 "2004-04-29T00:18:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > That’s a strange way of saying “Yes, you are right. My bad. I should not have said they were US officials.” > > Or are you a “no mistakes” poster? 🙂 To be fair, some _are_ on the US payroll. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/9 "2004-04-29T00:20:16Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > At least they could have done a pretty flag ? I rather like the flag. But since I saw it only on the internet and my screen has currently a big problem with colors (I see the two bands in dark green, not blue, for instance), maybe I’m wrong. I like the concept of the two bands symbolizing the two rivers. The Kurds in the middle seems rather weird to me, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/10 "2004-04-29T00:26:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > That’s a strange way of saying “Yes, you are right. My bad. I should not have said they were US officials.” > > Or are you a “no mistakes” poster? 🙂 ``` Come on John. You might think of those guys as legit Iraqis... but their brethen don't. The effect is the same. They were burning these new flags in Fallujah today. Was it in protest against their "government" or the USA ? Guess... So instead of just poking around... tell me what good will this new flag bring... ok ? ``` ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/11 "2004-04-29T00:29:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I like the concept of the two bands symbolizing the two rivers. The Kurds in the middle seems rather weird to me, though. The two rivers thing was neat… the yellow kurds in the middle is wierd for sure. Especially because the Kurds in the north are far from the rivers ? 🙂 Maybe they should have made a direct reference to the Sunnis and Shiites ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/12 "2004-04-29T00:29:27Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > So instead of just poking around… tell me what good will this new flag bring… ok ? It will bring about as much good as an OP which equates the Iraqi GC with US Officials-- which is to say: None. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/13 "2004-04-29T00:36:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It will bring about as much good as an OP which equates the Iraqi GC with US Officials-- which is to say: None. Fine then… step aside and don’t bother us. I guess I shouldn’t offend the free and elected officials of the Iraqi colony. They are so mighty busy governing that they have time to chose a white flag… Bremer’s CPA didn’t have time to do it for them. The political implications are the same no matter who did it. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/14 "2004-04-29T00:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The new design was more or less the same as the one announced earlier this week: two blue stripes along the bottom with a yellow stripe between them, and a crescent above them in a white field. > > But the stripes and crescent were a considerably darker shade of blue than the original version published in an Iraqi newspaper, which showed the stripes as being light blue. > > Many said the light blue stripes were reminiscent of the light blue bands on the Israeli flag. Hundreds of university students in Mosul demonstrated against that version today. [http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2853643](http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2853643) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/15 "2004-04-29T00:45:05Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Fine then… step aside and don’t bother us. You don’t know me very well if you start telling me what I should and shouldn’t do. I guess you need a clear field to be able to expand on such intellectual gems as: > [@](#): > > Can this be seen as anything but total insanity? There was a good reason the first thread was started in the Pit… ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/16 "2004-04-29T01:01:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > There was a good reason the first thread was started in the Pit… It was started in GD actually and was moved… and it specifically kept mentioning the US colonizing Iraq in the OP ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/17 "2004-04-29T01:02:22Z")
Anyway, stepping a little above the barely restrained name calling… basically, this makes sense, from the quasi-governmental point of view. The entire setup is being moved into a Operation Illusion of Independence phase. The US - er, I mean, Iraq - has a vested interest in making the current CPA-based government look and feel as realistic as possible. These are the people who want and who are wanted to move into power as Iraq is eventually let off the leash, and giving them a flag to rally behind is a PRIMARY step in that direction. Flags, remember, are very important symbols - probably the most important one a nation has. Giving the quasi-governmental thugs their own colors to fly makes them a more real government, and gives the people something to rally behind - something for the businesses to fly and people to wear showing they belong to a real nation. So that is the why. Why now? Well, we’re rapidly closing in on Operation Illusion of Independence. Figure it will take a few months for the flag to a) be accepted and b) be widely used, and the IGC has their rallying banner. By the time they take over from the CPA, they’ll need all the power they can get, because they are going to be harshly judged on both the world and domestic scales. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/18 "2004-04-29T01:09:37Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > …and giving them a flag to rally behind is a PRIMARY step in that direction. > > Flags, remember, are very important symbols - probably the most important one a nation has. Now people are rallying behind the old flag. Sadly they gave the insurgents the old flag for them to use. Since flags are very important symbols they shouldn’t be changed on a whim either. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/19 "2004-04-29T01:11:59Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Now people are rallying behind the old flag. Sadly they gave the insurgents the old flag for them to use. Since flags are very important symbols they shouldn’t be changed on a whim either. Well, they sure as hell can’t keep Saddam’s flag. They are in a nation building position, and making new symbology and propaganda are primary steps, like it or not. That thing is going to be plastered everywhere for the next few months (can’t wait for the Olympics where it will get a standing ovation, eh?) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581/20 "2004-04-29T01:17:21Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Well, they sure as hell can’t keep Saddam’s flag. They are in a nation building position, and making new symbology and propaganda are primary steps, like it or not. That thing is going to be plastered everywhere for the next few months (can’t wait for the Olympics where it will get a standing ovation, eh?) Yep, new symbology and such are important. The issues of Authority, TIMING and TASTE are very debatable. Also remember that Saddam only added the words on the flag. For most Iraqis their flag isn’t synonymous with Saddam. By chucking out the old flag your not chucking out Saddam’s legacy at all. (a bit of course… but not much) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-iraqi-flag-why-why-now/242581.md?page=2)