# New Jehovah's Witness proselytizing method? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676 "2015-02-03T04:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/41 "2015-02-08T19:20:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’d have resealed it, written DECEASED - RETURN TO SENDER on the outside, and let the USPS take it back to her. Then let her wonder when she sees you walking about all nice and healthy. She has no idea who I am. She got my name from someplace like the phone book or some mailing list. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/42 "2015-02-08T19:32:44Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > If you couldn’t tolerate their wooden droning long enough to find the “music video”, some zealous JW has now posted it on youtube: > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXVNN04xD3U&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXVNN04xD3U&feature=youtu.be) > Considering that JWs are extremely anti-gay, a lot of ex-JWs are finding it funny that the music is so “show tunes”-like. All of the comments, at least on the first page, are positive. A number of people are sharing it on Google +. I wonder if they get witnessing credit for sharing JW Youtube videos? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/43 "2015-02-09T16:01:28Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > This attitude always comes up in JW threads. Yes, there is a degree to which each religion claims a truth that others don’t have. However, JWs really are different than other religions when it comes to talking about that truth and considering other options. They are very, very quick to close down any avenue of communication that is not one they control in a way that is foreign to most Christian groups. Good point. Lutherans, for example, typically claim that they have the “most correct” teachings, but are willing to concede that there are other Christians out there who are not Lutheran and are also probably in God’s good graces. They are also willing to cooperate with and engage in continuing dialogue with other faiths with the understanding that God is real and his truth will, in the end, win out. They also acknowledge that they are imperfect and that there might be some flaws in their faith, and are willing for others to come in and politely engage them in dialogue over them. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/44 "2015-02-09T16:19:51Z")
> [@justanothermike](#): > > Oh yes, the love is defintely conditional. Like Drake said above, the motive is good, though to be honest it isn’t all about them coming back when one is disfellowshipped. It is also about keeping the congregation morally clean, and I kind of see a point in that. Therein is where your JW card is revoked. However, I do have issues with it. Sometimes it seems very punitive, and while there should be no pleasure in meting put such discipline I’ve seen it. Maybe it is overzealous caring for the appearance of the organization, but I’ve seen it. Additionally, you chose to mention that it is administered because someone no longer agrees with the governing body, but it is more so because one is seen as no longer agreeing with God and their dedication to him. > > I lost my brother to disfellowshipping. I didn’t speak to him for a decade. Then last year I was thinking about the whole concept and at a point it doesn’t make sense. If the person is only coming back due to family pressure and ostracism, then he doesn’t have a good reason. After all, it is SUPPOSED to be about the person’s relationship with God, not their family. Additionally, my brother was no longer pursuing the course that got him disfellowshipped. He is married and has a nice life, sans his family and former religion. He did turn his life around. He just no longer agreed with the religion, and I can’t hold that against him. I reached out to him, started a dialogue, and have even had him and his wife over for a weekend, as they live elsewhere. My wife and I hope to visit them this year. Anyway, my point is that again the truth lies in the middle, in my opinion. I do see a place for disfellowshipping as something that is done, but I also see it as cruel psychological warfare at times. As with most things in life, I no longer see such rigid rules and the tiny box that puts people (and God) in as healthy. I find that most things require some measure of individual attention and flexibility. > > My family reacted badly to me reaching out to my brother. Then again, we still hang out, they just didn’t approve. Okay, that’s there choice and I made mine. It is sad, but there’s nothing I can do about it. As with all things in life, sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t. I’m angry and have strong negative feelings about a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean that everything is bad. It just means I have to go on my journey my way. if your goal was to make it sound like a terribly toxic organization, you’ve succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/45 "2015-02-10T00:57:56Z")
> [@justanothermike](#): > > (though the JW’s do lay claim to having “The Truth”, which is absurd). It just astounds me that they don’t recognize the basic academic truth (little t): That scholars of religion (and monotheism in particular) have never interpreted, translated, or sounded-out the ancient characters as Je-Ho-Vah so their claim to be witnessing for some deity by that name is meaningless. It would be like me creating a neo-fundamentalist Muslim branch and claiming we’re the _Spokesmen of Ayah_. Even in Mexico, I’d be laughed out of town! :smack: –G! I’ll create a deity called A and then claim all Atheists are worshipping it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/46 "2015-02-10T01:20:47Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > It just astounds me that they don’t recognize the basic academic truth (little t): That scholars of religion (and monotheism in particular) have never interpreted, translated, or sounded-out the ancient characters as Je-Ho-Vah so their claim to be witnessing for some deity by that name is meaningless. > > It would be like me creating a neo-fundamentalist Muslim branch and claiming we’re the _Spokesmen of Ayah_. Even in Mexico, I’d be laughed out of town! :smack: > > –G! > I’ll create a deity called A and then claim all Atheists are worshipping it! 😃 The same could be said for “Jesus” as English speakers pronounce it, though. Did Hebrews, Aramaic-speakers, or Greeks even have the consonants /dʒ/ or /z/? “Jehovah” is a mistake from 500 years ago ([cite](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Jehovah&allowed_in_frame=0)), but by now that’s called “tradition” and it’s reasonable to call it the English name (or at least one valid English name) of the Hebrew deity. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/47 "2015-02-11T16:22:57Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > […] > \*For the love of Jehovah, please don’t attempt to watch the ENTIRE broadcast. I can’t be responsible for the permanent brain damage that you will suffer if you do. What’s YOUR excuse? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/48 "2015-02-11T20:26:38Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > What’s YOUR excuse? > 😛 Adding a smilie to it doesn’t make it better. Let’s just stay off this course and not make it personal. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/49 "2015-02-11T20:36:02Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > True, but I don’t just the people of 2015 by the standards of 1565. We should know better. We often behave as if we don’t, because people suck sometimes. This very morning I was listening to the NPR talk show out of San Francisco about how the Catholic leadership has proposed a contract making teachers at Catholic schools ministers - ministers in the sense that they no longer get covered by anti-discrimination laws. They are expected to support church teachings in their public face (not just in their teaching which I can see.) The priest who was on distinguished public and private this way in part. Going with someone to an abortion clinic is private, joining an organization in support of something against church teachings (like SSM) is public. I didn’t listen long enough to know if a picture of a teacher with a same sex SO would be considered public or private. So this is inherent in some religions, even today. Not just JWs. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/50 "2015-02-11T21:17:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So this is inherent in some religions, even today. Not just JWs. JWs go a lot farther than Catholics do in trying to use emotional blackmail on their followers who question anything: [JW Alumni - A New Point Of View](http://jwalumni.org/2015/02/10/jw-org-catholic-church-shunning/) Even getting fired from a job is not as extreme as the JW’s practice of forbidding your own family from interacting with you if you leave the JWs. The JWs literally encourage their believers to behave as if members who have left have been killed by Jehovah and don’t exist anymore. Even if that person was a family member that you “loved” before they left the JWs. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/51 "2015-02-11T21:23:52Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > What’s YOUR excuse? > 😛 Dude, you belong to a religion that actively tries to stop people from obtaining an education: [Nonreligious Questions](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/01/26/jehovahs-witness-leader-rants-against-higher-education-saying-itll-lead-to-spiritual-disaster/) Have you ever wondered why they are so afraid of secular information? Shouldn’t the truth be able to hold up against the lies of Satan, instead of immediately collapsing like a wet cardboard box as soon as it faces any opposition? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/52 "2015-02-11T23:01:27Z")
[QUOTE=lavenderviolet;18126507[…] [/QUOTE] Nobody stopped ME from getting an education, Buster. El Camino College, Class of 1986. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c37758/32.png) [@Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eugene_of_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/53 "2015-02-12T00:26:50Z")
Worked with a fella one time who was a firm JW. Family guy, married, few kids, working man. Good guy, I liked him fine and he was top help. He brought it up one day and as I showed no interest he asked me if I had heard any of this and if I was interested. When I answered in the negative that was that. According to the tenets of their religion they have to make the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/54 "2015-02-12T01:09:14Z")
> [@Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](#): > > Worked with a fella one time who was a firm JW. Family guy, married, few kids, working man. Good guy, I liked him fine and he was top help. He brought it up one day and as I showed no interest he asked me if I had heard any of this and if I was interested. When I answered in the negative that was that. According to the tenets of their religion they have to make the effort. That’s great. I’m glad your experience was easy and mild. Do you understand that it is a completely different ballgame for people who are already JWs, many of whom were born into it and had no choice, and for people whose family are JWs? Do you understand what shunning is? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/55 "2015-02-12T02:26:13Z")
No choice? “Shunning”? Somehow I’m hard put to see how this is any of your concern. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/56 "2015-02-12T06:03:52Z")
Wow. Lavenderviolet - I am so glad you posted this link. Just tonight, I was trying to figure something out about an interaction I had with a JW friend/colleague earlier today: My nephew threw out some lame excuse as to why my niece should not have a turn ( **finally** ) on the computer. He said something like, “But…but…have you been doing something else for 96 MINUTES!!?” and I said, there goes another red herring! from the six year old (my nephew knows full well the means of diversion). So, my friend (the JW) gave me the biggest blank look. I said, uh a red herring is when a person throws out a statement or idea not relevant to the issue at hand in order to divert attention, and in a manipulative or deceptive way. Now, I don’t know if my on-the-spot definition was correct, or even if my usage was correct, but I’d been up since 4 a.m. and was feeling silly. And I like to introduce the little jerk (my nephew) to terms like red herring and to let him know that I’m on to him. So my JW colleague/friend began this rant about how she didn’t understand what I was talking about, how I was using a term she had never heard, no one she knows has probably heard of, and that normal people do not talk like this, that whatever happened to using plain clear speech with words everyone understands. And look at what education does, you have a bunch of people with no common sense. Today, I’d had it. I’d heard stuff like this before from her, and it had been progressively creeping me out. I just said look, I don’t expect you to show me any more respect for my education. Likewise, I don’t think you are right to look down on me, or anyone else, for his or her educational background. So: Why do you look down on educated people? (I am aware of the organizations teachings on this, especially in the past, but didn’t want to get into that with her because it’s a dead end.) I actually said, is this just a thing you have? or it it a witness-y thing? I’ve had it with their crap. I really like her otherwise else I’d be running away as in Monty Python’s “Run Away!” Anyway, I’ve noticed a pattern. She doesn’t believe or say anything strongly that hasn’t been presented recently in a magazine or video. And again, tonight, thanks lavenderviolet you have provided the evidence. > [@lavenderviolet](#): > > Dude, you belong to a religion that actively tries to stop people from obtaining an education: [Nonreligious Questions](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/01/26/jehovahs-witness-leader-rants-against-higher-education-saying-itll-lead-to-spiritual-disaster/) > > Have you ever wondered why they are so afraid of secular information? Shouldn’t the truth be able to hold up against the lies of Satan, instead of immediately collapsing like a wet cardboard box as soon as it faces any opposition? ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/57 "2015-02-12T06:13:40Z")
This really pisses me off! These same people rely on the extensive education of physicians, engineers, and others on a daily basis. And: There’s nothing wrong with bypassing education completely if a person chooses. Perhaps to live life happy doing work that doesn’t require it, or work that you can pick up through apprentice-ship which is education too. But to categorically dismiss education as bad, is, er dumb. There are people for whom education provides the best way forward in life within their circumstances. I’m severely physically disabled and am never going to be a ballerina, or plumber, or a 16 hour work day business person. Yeah, but I can think, and I enjoy it, damn it! So what if I feel comfortable maxing out my time in libraries! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/58 "2015-02-12T07:01:05Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > No choice? > “Shunning”? > Somehow I’m hard put to see how this is any of your concern. [Shunning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning#Jehovah.27s_Witnesses) is what it’s called. This religion has affected me deeply and personally. My great-grandfather joined in the 1920s, and I have very close relatives in it to this day. My mother was raised JW and endured abuse as a child. I wasn’t raised in it, but I lived through 1975 and the fallout from it, and I have been up close and personal with shunning and with all manner of emotionally and psychologically abusive tactics performed by JWs against disfellowshipped JWs. The family is currently under a court order to deal with each other in a legal matter, one which is beyond ugly precisely because of this religion, so I’ve come in for renewed abuse in the last couple of years. I’ll defend its doctrine as no weirder than any other religion. I’ll defend the Witnessing as an understandable practice that does comparatively little harm to non-Witnesses. But I will not countenance the apologists for the JWs who do so in ignorance of what the organization is like. This board is about fighting ignorance, and I’ll pit my lifetime of experience with this organization against people’s ignorance any day. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/59 "2015-02-13T03:46:50Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Nobody stopped ME from getting an education, Buster. El Camino College, Class of 1986. 🙂 I am glad that you decided to get educated regardless, but the fact remains that your organization tries to stop others from developing their minds by trying to scare them into thinking a school means “danger”. As you can see from the January JW TV broadcast, Tony openly tells his followers that “the better the university, the greater the danger”. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676/60 "2015-02-13T03:56:33Z")
> [@butterfiles](#): > > So my JW colleague/friend began this rant about how she didn’t understand what I was talking about, how I was using a term she had never heard, no one she knows has probably heard of, and that normal people do not talk like this, that whatever happened to using plain clear speech with words everyone understands. Maybe this would be a good opportunity to encourage your friend to look at a site of logical fallacies like this: [Bitcoin Prime App ™ | Die offizielle und aktualisierte Website 2024 🥇](http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/red-herring/) A lot of ex-JWs have mentioned that once they became educated about logical fallacies it was impossible to not notice how often the JW rhetoric constantly resorts to logical fallacies to prop up their claims. The organization really preys on the ignorance of poorly educated people, sadly. I also highly recommend looking through [http://www.jwfacts.com](http://www.jwfacts.com) if you haven’t already to understand the kind of crazy stuff that this organization has been filling your friend’s head with. A LOT of the weird things I had noticed my family’s JWs doing started to make sense once I read the info there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jehovahs-witness-proselytizing-method/711676.md?page=4)