# New Jersey High School Yearbook edited to remove Trumpisms **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805 "2017-06-12T20:58:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/21 "2017-06-13T01:09:32Z")
If the photos and quotes violated school policy, then the students and their parents should have been notified of such in time to retake photographs/resubmit quotes…or at the very least should have been informed that their submissions were being removed from the yearbook before it was printed. It seems that did not happen, because there was no violation of policy on the part of the students; the only wrong here was on the part of the staff member who unilaterally chose to alter the yearbook content because it offended their political sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/22 "2017-06-13T01:33:56Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > These people should be standing behind the accused editor. It’s a school, they can do whatever they want. The story is, as far as I can tell, that it’s a public school that censored such mention of ‘Trump’ but didn’t censor such mention of ‘Obama’. Seems a bridge too far. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/23 "2017-06-13T02:07:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As you must see, in this case the students expressed their political opinion by wearing shirts for their personal yearbook photos; the adviser “expressed his political opinion,” by blocking the display of others’ political short opinions. The two methods of expression differ dramatically. That’s one opinion. I’d say the two methods of expression differ slightly. Both the students and the teacher were taking actions to express a political opinion. The students wanted to put political messages into the yearbook. The teacher wanted to take political messages out of the yearbook. The students were punished by having their yearbooks edited. It seems extremely disproportionate to punish the teacher by firing him. The teacher did not expel or suspend the students. If the school board wants to punish the teacher, they can remove his picture from the yearbook. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/24 "2017-06-13T02:11:52Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > Doesn’t editing their yearbook pictures do the same? Yes it does. The teacher should be punished. But only to the extent he punished the students, as I suggested in my previous post. You should not punish one side a hundred times more severely than you punish the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/25 "2017-06-13T02:31:06Z")
You’re messing with us, right? ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/26 "2017-06-13T02:45:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure getting fired is the remedy for every transgression. Just tell the advisor “I \*hope \*you can refrain from doing this again.” That’s probably the better stance. Still, you don’t get to use your job to censor someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/27 "2017-06-13T03:43:19Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You’re messing with us, right? Assuming I’m not missing a reference or joke here: > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes it does. The teacher should be punished. But only to the extent he punished the students, as I suggested in my previous post. You should not punish one side a hundred times more severely than you punish the other. The student was not punished. If I’m understanding the story, an agent of the government suppressed protected speech while carrying out official duties. That action was not “expressing an opinion.” There are plenty of competent people who can do the job, so find someone who can do the job. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/28 "2017-06-13T03:47:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I hate Trump as much as anyone, but I don’t approve of the advisor doing this. Leave the stupid shit in the yearbook and let the kids cringe when they look back years later. This. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/29 "2017-06-13T04:03:58Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > What a stoopit idea. If I’m a student there, I got my yearbook, my friends &/or teachers signed it & now I’m gone & they are, too. I can get a new yearbook with (2) altered photos / (1) quote of students that I may or may not be friends with but won’t have the various autographs/well wishes or I can keep the one I have, which is autographed. > > If Dad sued the school, I’d back him, but making them spend money on something most people don’t want is an exercise in wastefulness. We didn’t have yearbooks, but we did have class pictures and when those of my class happened to be wrong we rejected them. Distribution had started without checking; the first complaint took place as soon as the first student took his out of the envelope. If my clothing had been edited, the photographer would have been given detailed proctological instructions. He only got paid for pictures accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/30 "2017-06-13T04:10:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _“I want the yearbooks to be reissued and I want a letter from the administration explaining why they are reissuing the yearbook,” Joseph Berardo said._ > > That sounds fair. no, making the person who screwed up pay for it would be fair. I don’t want him fired but wearing a Trump hat for a week would be a good start. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Doesn’t firing somebody for expressing their political opinion undercut the message that people should be allowed to express their political opinion? yes but he wasn’t expressing a political opinion, he was censoring the student’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/31 "2017-06-13T04:26:35Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You’re messing with us, right? No, I’m serious. > [@Ruken](#): > > The student was not punished. I don’t want to get into an argument over terms. That derails too many topics from the issue involved into a debate over what words should be used. So would it be acceptable to say the students were wronged and move on? > [@Ruken](#): > > If I’m understanding the story, an agent of the government suppressed protected speech while carrying out official duties. I think that may be disputable. Just because a person is a government employee doesn’t make everything they do a government action. If a government employee is driving a government-owned vehicle and gets a speeding ticket, the ticket goes on his record not the government’s. You’re only acting as a government agent when you’re carrying out the policies of the government. Which as clearly not the case here; the school has clearly not condoned the teacher’s actions. > [@Ruken](#): > > That action was not “expressing an opinion.” There are plenty of competent people who can do the job, so find someone who can do the job. It’s hard to see a line between putting a picture into a yearbook and taking a picture out of a yearbook. If one was a political action, how was the other one not? Firing somebody for expressing their political opinions would seem to me to be sending a chilling attack against free speech that far outweighs its supposed defense. Of course maybe that’s a truer message. The teacher had power over the students so he was able to remove their political message from the yearbook. And the school board has more power than the teacher, so it was able to suspend him and may fire him. The message both of these actions send is that you’re allowed to have free speech - as long as don’t say anything that people with power disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/32 "2017-06-13T04:28:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes but he wasn’t expressing a political opinion, he was censoring the student’s opinion. I’d argue he was clearly expressing the political opinion “I don’t want any Trump messages in this yearbook.” ---
**Author:** ![Marci\_Al](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Marci\_Al](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marci_Al)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/33 "2017-06-13T06:41:51Z")
This thread almost makes me think Trumpism is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/34 "2017-06-13T06:45:37Z")
The teacher should have taken the extra step in expressing his political opinion and photoshopped the political messages of which he approved on the students’ t-shirts. That’d show them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/35 "2017-06-13T08:24:53Z")
If they edited out all logos and graphics, and there was no policy, instruction or reasonable expectation to do that, then it’s just a deviation from the job spec. they might plausibly argue that they thought they were doing something helpful, and I would deal with it by instructing the person not to do it like that again. If they ignored this and did it again, it would be an internal discipplinary matter. If they edited out just political logos without any partisan bias (which might be hard to tell if the only examples were from one party), again, I’d treat as above - because it could be plausibly argued that they thought they were doing something that they thought was desirable in terms of presentation standards. If there’s any selection/bias in the editing, then I’d say it should immediately be a disciplinary process. If they thought this sort of action was desired by the school, they should have confirmed it before acting. I think firing them for this alone would be a bit extreme, but if it’s not the first disciplinary offence (of any kind), then it could contribute to a case for dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/36 "2017-06-13T08:35:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s hard to see a line between putting a picture into a yearbook and taking a picture out of a yearbook. If one was a political action, how was the other one not? I think there is a line: Making a political statement by wearing it on a shirt in a photo you know will be published = expressing your political views. Photoshopping a photo so as to remove a political statement logo = suppressing _someone else’s_ statement of their views. It’s subtle, and I appreciate that the pages of the yearbook may not necessarily constitute a place in which freedom of speech is expected or legally protected, but if freedom of speech is still the general principle that is being aimed for here, then ‘speaking your view’ is not equivalent to ‘silencing opposing views’. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/37 "2017-06-13T09:59:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s one opinion. I’d say the two methods of expression differ slightly. Both the students and the teacher were taking actions to express a political opinion. The students wanted to put political messages into the yearbook. The teacher wanted to take political messages out of the yearbook. The difference is that the students are legally permitted to express their opinions by wearing shirts with political messages. The teacher, acting in his capacity as a government employee, is not permitted to engage in viewpoint discrimination. By deleting only Trump images, he prevents some view but not others. This, he is not permitted to do under First Amendment law. > [@](#): > > The students were punished by having their yearbooks edited. It seems extremely disproportionate to punish the teacher by firing him. The teacher did not expel or suspend the students. If the school board wants to punish the teacher, they can remove his picture from the yearbook. The students should not have been “punished” at all; they didn’t violate any rules. The teacher and the students are not acting in similar capacities here and only the teacher has done something warranting punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/38 "2017-06-13T10:03:20Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It’s subtle, and I appreciate that the pages of the yearbook may not necessarily constitute a place in which freedom of speech is expected or legally protected, but if freedom of speech is still the general principle that is being aimed for here, then ‘speaking your view’ is not equivalent to ‘silencing opposing views’. If you permit some students to offer political messages, and you’re a public school, then you cannot stop other students from offering political messages. This is basic First Amendment law relating to limited public forums. This is not a case in which the teacher publishes the yearbook at his own expense. The school publishes the yearbook, creates its content with student and staff labor, and allows political messages to be displayed. This creates a limited public forum and means that the school may not engage in viewpoint discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/39 "2017-06-13T10:12:22Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I hate Trump as much as anyone, but I don’t approve of the advisor doing this. Leave the stupid shit in the yearbook and let the kids cringe when they look back years later. This indeed. But it’s not a termination-level offense. At worst the teacher ought to apologize at the next school assembly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805/40 "2017-06-13T10:40:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s hard to see a line between putting a picture into a yearbook and taking a picture out of a yearbook. If one was a political action, how was the other one not? Firing somebody for expressing their political opinions would seem to me to be sending a chilling attack against free speech that far outweighs its supposed defense. > > Of course maybe that’s a truer message. The teacher had power over the students so he was able to remove their political message from the yearbook. And the school board has more power than the teacher, so it was able to suspend him and may fire him. The message both of these actions send is that you’re allowed to have free speech - as long as don’t say anything that people with power disagree with. No. See _Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School Dist_., 393 U.S. 503 (1969): > [@](#): > > In order for the State in the person of school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expression of opinion, it must be able to show that its action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint. This is a relatively settled area of law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-jersey-high-school-yearbook-edited-to-remove-trumpisms/788805.md?page=3)