# New Joker movie (Joaquin Phoenix) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984 "2019-04-03T15:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/41 "2019-04-05T08:14:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This goes all the way back to 12 y.o. me and _Return of the Jedi_. **Fuck** that masked génocidaire’s redemption arc. Hey, now, it was Tarkin that committed genocide. Vader just murdered, like, a dozen children. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/42 "2019-04-05T12:16:14Z")
The Joker’s superpowers are his chaotic unpredictability and his enthusiastic willingness to go places others will not. Add in the fact that he’s basically a genius and can prep a battlefield with as much skill as Batman and you’ve got one big fucking problem walking around in clown makeup and a dope ass purple pimp suit. I also see a lot of similarities between Joker and the comedian from Watchmen…“Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.”…For me, that’s all the backstory I need for a character like this. That being said, this movie looks good and I’m willing to give it a go. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/43 "2019-04-05T13:04:01Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Also since Joaquin Phoenix is pretty much mental anyway in real life, that adds spice and flavor to playing an insane, homicidal maniac. Of course, the same thing was true of Jack Nicholson… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/44 "2019-04-05T13:17:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hey, now, it was Tarkin that committed genocide. No, _every_ Imperial on the Death Star committed genocide. > [@](#): > > Vader just murdered, like, a dozen children. you’re forgetting the sandpeople. And all the other Jedi Knights he “helped the Empire hunt down and destroy” - I don’t think Obi-Wan meant the padawans, there. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/45 "2019-04-05T13:31:33Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > I certainly think Joaquin looks the right age for the role, with just enough cragginess. And he plays loopy characters very well - he was good in that otherwise pretentious car-crash The Master. The trailer makes me think of Taxi Driver, and tangentially, King of Comedy. If they wanted an older, craggy actor to play the Joker, they should have gotten Mark Hammill. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/46 "2019-04-05T14:10:15Z")
The club he’s doing standup at is named “Pogo’s”, which was John Wayne Gacy’s clown name. If DeNiro is playing a talk show host, are we going to get the “David Endocrine” event from “The Dark Knight Returns” ? > [@MrDibble](#): > > you’re forgetting the sandpeople. And all the other Jedi Knights he “helped the Empire hunt down and destroy” - I don’t think Obi-Wan meant the padawans, there. Eh, killing sandpeople is more like pest control. And frankly, the Jedi were a bunch of sanctimonious pricks who had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/47 "2019-04-05T14:14:33Z")
I have no idea what to make of this. In Batman the Joker is more like a force of nature. Unknowable source of violence and chaos. A movie from his point of view is probably either going to be brilliant or terrible. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/48 "2019-04-05T15:19:54Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I did not like the trailer (or Aquaman\*\*, but for different reasons). I am well aware that Batman is an incredibly dark superhero, and the villains he fights should be equally dark. I loved Heath Ledger’s Joker _because_ he didn’t have a reliable backstory. The clothing he wore was custom, no labels, and no one had a clue who he was or therefore what his currency is - I love that. We don’t usually get reasons for the evil in life, it just is and the Joker was the crown prince of chaotic evil. > > This trailer seems to paint him as a sweet, simple guy that just wants to bring joy to people and he is slowly beaten and abused to the point of cracking into the Joker. That does not sound entertaining, at least not to me Heh. Just picture it: two solid hours of Joaquin Phoenix as the sweet dancing clown spinning a sign and getting beaten up for it; and as the smiling ‘clownface’ guy who gets abused on the subway; and as the increasingly-successful performer, even on television in full makeup, while apparently getting impressionable folks to start running around in ‘clown’ guise to do Hey-_We_-Think-This-Is-Funny stuff. That’s what the trailer looks like, right? An entire movie like that. And then the last minute is a mental patient killing him and stealing his act. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/49 "2019-04-05T15:52:24Z")
_Bluto Begins_ (2019) An emotionally distant father and an unrequited crush transform a bashful schoolboy into a belligerent pugilist in this gritty biopic from the director of _Rubble_ and _Jabberjaw Unbound_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/50 "2019-04-05T17:50:57Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I have no idea what to make of this. > > In Batman the Joker is more like a force of nature. Unknowable source of violence and chaos. A movie from his point of view is probably either going to be brilliant or terrible. The idea of the Joker’s starting out as a regular, loving family man with comedy aspirations goes back more than 30 years to “The Killing Joke.” And although I like Heath Ledger’s portrayal of the Joker, what I didn’t like about that movie was the fact that the Joker would have to have near godlike powers and an army of resources to set up his schemes. That doesn’t really jibe with my idea of the Joker being a truly unhinged lunatic. He should have \*some \*limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/51 "2019-04-05T19:49:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The idea of the Joker’s starting out as a regular, loving family man with comedy aspirations goes back more than 30 years to “The Killing Joke.” > > And although I like Heath Ledger’s portrayal of the Joker, what I didn’t like about that movie was the fact that the Joker would have to have near godlike powers and an army of resources to set up his schemes. That doesn’t really jibe with my idea of the Joker being a truly unhinged lunatic. He should have \*some \*limitations. Like every DC character there are about two dozen versions you can point to. This movie is yet another. I guess what I was talking about was my preferred version. I would rather the Joker’s past be unknowable. It could be cool if this entire movie ends u being something like The Usual Suspects where the Joker is retelling his origin to a cop or doctor and in the end you realize it is complete bull shit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/52 "2019-04-05T21:10:13Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > It could be cool if this entire movie ends u being something like The Usual Suspects where the Joker is retelling his origin to a cop or doctor and in the end you realize it is complete bull shit. Oh, man. End of movie, he’s in Arkham, telling all this to a doctor. Camera pulls back and you can see the name on the door: Dr. H. Quinzel. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/53 "2019-04-05T22:59:35Z")
Does anyone know where the tall steps shown in the trailer are located? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/54 "2019-04-05T23:09:25Z")
Nevermind, the top is at West 167th st. and Anderson ave. in the Bronx. Bonus points for naming other films or tv shows featuring the steps. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/55 "2019-04-06T16:51:37Z")
Youtube comment section is garbage, but I saw this: > [@Youtube comments](#): > > Fun fact: In order to prepare for the role of the Joker, Joaquin Phoenix had to live in a society for two weeks straight. and giggled like the Joker. On the one hand, I’m a little over the glamorizing of disaffected white dudes who go on killing sprees because they’re losers. On the other hand, this looks amazing. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/56 "2019-04-06T21:31:52Z")
It’s interesting to me how many different versions of the Joker there have been since the tv show. Nicholson, basically his version of the tv Joker, Heath Ledger with his dark madness Joker, Jared Leto and his over the top comic book villain Joker and now Joaquin Phoenix with what appears to be a gritty realism Joker. Visually, I think Phoenix is a good fit to play the Joker, now lets hope the writers and director can help him bring out another good iteration the character ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/57 "2019-04-06T23:55:08Z")
The Joker, especially as depicted on screen, has always had different interpretations. This Joker is explicitly not the one from the latest movies, and is even deliberately using non-standard makeup for him–more so than even emo-Joker. I’m fine with it, even if this Joker comes off sympathetic. The use in that is that it allows us to remember that even people who start out being good can wind up being evil, and to always remain vigilant. Humanizing is even more useful, reminding us that even the worst evil things are perpetuated by human beings and that sometimes the way to stop the evil is to get through to them as humans first. It doesn’t need to mean becoming sympathetic towards them. Even if they are too far gone, maybe it allows you to catch the process earlier in the next evil human. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/58 "2019-04-07T15:52:52Z")
Given the state of modern forensics, DNA matching, facial recognition, GPS, cameras everywhere, and everyone/everything online, it seems impossible that the Joker’s identity would remain unknown for so long, especially considering how many times he’s been in custody. If nothing else, someone somewhere would see his mugshot online and say “Hey, I think I went to high school with that guy!” Then again, it would be impossible to give the Joker an origin that would satisfy everyone. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/59 "2019-04-07T17:42:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The Joker, especially as depicted on screen, has always had different interpretations. This Joker is explicitly not the one from the latest movies, and is even deliberately using non-standard makeup for him–more so than even emo-Joker. > > I’m fine with it, even if this Joker comes off sympathetic. The use in that is that it allows us to remember that even people who start out being good can wind up being evil, and to always remain vigilant. > > Humanizing is even more useful, reminding us that even the worst evil things are perpetuated by human beings and that sometimes the way to stop the evil is to get through to them as humans first. It doesn’t need to mean becoming sympathetic towards them. > > Even if they are too far gone, maybe it allows you to catch the process earlier in the next evil human. Oh I know each on screen Joker is different from the last. Thats what makes it interesting. Each version seems to explore a different aspect of the character. I can’t speak about the animated versions for this though, Super Friends was far to long ago and I’m not at all familiar with the newer stuff. Far as Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker, I just hope they don’t catwoman him in this movie since they seem to be taking a different direction this time. ---
**Author:** ![GuyTanzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@GuyTanzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyTanzer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984/60 "2019-04-08T00:23:00Z")
All the references in the teaser to Charlie Chaplin were great to see. Even the melody to the song “Smile” is from Modern Times. I once speculated on FB if The Tramp could pull off being The Joker; God only knows what The Tramp could have done with the role. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-joker-movie-joaquin-phoenix/831984.md?page=4)