# New/Last Harry Potter book to be 1500 pages long??! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116 "2006-09-10T00:54:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/21 "2006-09-11T16:10:22Z")
Tamora Pierce is better than Rowling? No way! Yes, I read the Lioness series, and I certainly liked having finally a strong girl heroine (all too rare) … but on re-reading it, there’s an awful lot of stereotype, poor motivation of characters. As for prose - Pierce writes flatly, Rowling’s language sparkles. Pierce has short sentences (is she aiming on purpose for second-graders?), Rowling is confident that children can read long sentences and understand unusual words, as well as concept. Pierce has one-dimensional story-lines, Rowling has complex characters, and many levels - that’s why it’s fun for adults to read, too, because of the many hidden jabs and jokes and so on. And Rowling admits openly that her world is English (interwoven with current Muggle society), while Pierce dresses up US High School as medieval society (which is a bad clash). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/22 "2006-09-11T16:55:18Z")
Well, I mean, I first read Pierce when I was ten or eleven and I must have just about memorized the Song of the Lioness books (The rest of them aren’t really my cup of tea, too juvenile). I think if Harry Potter had been around when I was a kid they wouldn’t have been nearly as significant to me. They’re getting worse as they go on, too. I mean, not that I don’t read and enjoy them, but I do some eye-rolling when I do it. I’d much rather read the latest Garth Nix. I met her completely by accident at the ALA annual conference one year and just about peed my pants. I was rendered completely speechless. She was extremely gracious. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/23 "2006-09-11T16:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I think if Harry Potter had been around when I was a kid they wouldn’t have been nearly as significant to me. They’re getting worse as they go on, too. I mean, not that I don’t read and enjoy them, but I do some eye-rolling when I do it. See, now this I don’t agree with at all. I’d be curious to know the ways in which you think they’re getting worse as they go on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/24 "2006-09-11T17:05:42Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] Well, how’s this? Phillip Pullman - His Dark Materials Madeline L’Engle - A Wrinkle in Time and sequels Ursula K. LeGuin - Earthsea, appropriate for older kids There’s fifteen, all of them at least trilogies, off the top of my head, all arguably better than Harry Potter. (Didn’t even mention Redwall.) I mean, I like Harry too, but there’s a lot of really, really good stuff out there. [/QUOTE] All three of these had an initial good first book, followed by crap- dull boring preachy crap- afterwards. **Gadarene** You make a point but some of the Nesbit and Eager books are in a series. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/25 "2006-09-11T17:09:43Z")
Looks like the quote from JK was false: she says she never said that and isn’t that far along in writing yet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/26 "2006-09-11T17:09:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Gadarene You make a point but some of the Nesbit and Eager books are in a series. I know. 🙂 Which is why I said what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/27 "2006-09-11T17:12:17Z")
Anyway, the point is that tastes differ, right? I chafe when people say that X is definitively better than Y without adding “to me” or without backing the statement up in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/28 "2006-09-11T18:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, the point is that tastes differ, right? I chafe when people say that X is definitively better than Y without adding “to me” or without backing the statement up in some way. But that’s like, just your opinion, man. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/29 "2006-09-11T18:21:13Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] All three of these had an initial good first book, followed by crap- dull boring preachy crap- afterwards. **Gadarene** You make a point but some of the Nesbit and Eager books are in a series. [/QUOTE] Are you kidding? You think the rest of Earthsea was dull? _The Tombs of Atuan_, particularly? Also, I liked _The Subtle Knife_ and enjoyed the other L’Engle books when I was young, although now they do seem very preachy to me. I think Harry Potter is suffering from famous-writer bloat, for one thing. For another, I just don’t see them as so stunningly profound as a lot of their fans do. I mean, there was some good meaty stuff in the last one, but it was kind of sunk in a bog of other kinda boring fake-drama pagery. The bloat began in _Goblet of Fire_ and while subsequent books have been better they’ve never been tight since, in my opinion. I think it’s great that people are excited about them, I read and enjoy them, but there’s so much stuff out there that’s so much better, and I’m worried that those Potter kids won’t necessarily pick it up. If they read Harry Potter but not Lloyd Alexander or Ursula K. LeGuin, is that progress? I mean, I read and love Stephen King, but that’s hardly all I read. I approve of things that get kids to read, but I dearly hope it gets them to read _everything_, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/30 "2006-09-11T18:28:20Z")
Actually, I thought that book 5 was really tight and awesome. I don’t think it fits the pattern you are describing. GoF was long, but honestly, I didn’t much mind. If anything, Book 1 and Book 2 look a little shallow and short in comparison to 3 (generally thought to be the best of the series) and the deepening of things in 4 and 5. I have to admit that the start/middle of “Tombs” from Ursala was pretty dull. Book 3 is a masterpiece though. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/31 "2006-09-11T19:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] ShibbOleth writes: \> I’m probably the only one who reads the Potter series and thinks the books \> would do better kept to a more manageable length. I’ve read them all and I certainly think they would be better if they were shorter. I also don’t think that it’s nearly as good a series as its fans think. I’ve read them all so far because it’s pretty much a requirement now for anyone interested in fantasy to read them all and because many of my friends read and discuss them, so I don’t want to be left out of discussions. As I’ve said before in other threads, I can name at least fifteen other children’s fantasy series that are better than the Harry Potter books. [/QUOTE] You know, after having recently reread the Chronicles of Narnia, I realized how poor my memory of such things from childhood is. I gained a greater appreciation for Harry Potter after realizing that a couple of the Narnia books were duds and the rest of them didn’t seem nearly as good as I remembered. _A Wrinkle in Time_ has held up for me a little better over time, but I still don’t find it nearly as impressive as I did when I was young. I was surprised by how interesting and how much more nuanced the Harry Potter series seemed in comparison. It’s got much more interesting and complex characters than in most children’s literature I’ve read, and it’s got a real sophistication in its approach to good and evil that I find to be really lacking in the Narnia series at least. _The Order of the Phoenix_ is the only one that didn’t seem economical enough to me, but even that had a whole lot of plot - I could do without parts of it, but I didn’t think it felt bloated the way, say, _The Wheel of Time_ is. (Of course, that’s like saying the hill in my backyard isn’t quite as tall as Mount Everest. _The Wheel of Time_ is a big part of why I pretty much stopped reading genre fiction.) I need to dig out the Prydain thingy and see if that’s as good as I remember. (From mentions around here, I’m suspecting that it’ll probably be even better than when I was a kid.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/32 "2006-09-11T20:22:38Z")
She’s denied saying the whole thing about 750 pages. [Here](http://www.jkrowling.co.uk/textonly/en/rubbishbin_view.cfm?id=15) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/33 "2006-09-11T20:44:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I need to dig out the Prydain thingy and see if that’s as good as I remember. (From mentions around here, I’m suspecting that it’ll probably be even better than when I was a kid.) The biggest difference you’ll notice is that they’re very quick reads. All five of the Prydain books together are still probably less words than the typical adult novel. But I did think that they held up well on re-reading them as an adult, and I picked up more on some of the themes. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/34 "2006-09-11T21:52:05Z")
**Zofia** , no Terry Pratchett? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/35 "2006-09-11T21:59:42Z")
@4:22pm [QUOTE=Mahaloth] She’s denied saying the whole thing about 750 pages. [Here](http://www.jkrowling.co.uk/textonly/en/rubbishbin_view.cfm?id=15) [/QUOTE] Too slow, Mahaloth-san! @1:09pm [QUOTE=Apos] Looks like the quote from JK was false: she says she never said that and isn’t that far along in writing yet. 🙂 [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/36 "2006-09-11T22:04:32Z")
The ending of the 4th book may seem like a cliche to me now that I’ve heard that message a million times in a million mediums, but I think that it’s still one of the most profound and powerful tellings of the entire genre/morals. Great series, Prydain. The little “backstory” tales is pretty good too, if you are looking for more on some of the backstory of the universe. I can’t believe Llyod Alexander is still alive and writing either: I thought he was much older. Can’t say that I’ve ever really read any of his other stuff, and it looks as if nothing really resonated as much as the Prydain stories did. That’s was more than 30 years ago now. Sheesh. [Lloyd Alexander - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Alexander) is still alive ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/37 "2006-09-12T01:53:51Z")
Here are a bunch of better (in my opinion) fantasy series: _Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland_ and _Through the Looking Glass_ by Lewis Carroll The Green Knowe series by L. M. Boston The Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander The Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis The Chubby Lewis series (_The House with a Clock in Its Walls_ and its sequels) by John Bellairs The Time Quartet (_A Wrinkle in Time_ and its sequels) by Madeleine L’Engle The Oz books by L. Frank Baum The series consisting of _Five Children and It_, _The Phoenix and the Carpet_, and _The Story of the Amulet_ by Edith Nesbit The Earthsea books by Ursula K. Le Guin The Snarkout Boys books by Daniel Pinkwater The Charlie and Willy Wonka books by Roald Dahl The Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper The Wizards series by Diane Duane The Wolves Chronicles by Joan Aiken The Crestomanci Quartet by Diane Wynne Jones I wasn’t trying to start an argument about what the best children’s fantasy series is. I was commenting on ShibbOleth’s statement that he/she thought that he/she was the only person who’s still reading the Harry Potter books but thinks they should be better edited. I’m one person who’s read them all but who thinks that they definitely need editing. Indeed, I think that they have a number of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/38 "2006-09-12T05:32:17Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] (Although I do find Garth Nix’s books abominably written.) [/QUOTE] I hesitate to hijack, but why? I love the Abhorsen books, although I do admit that I wanted to smack Lirael and Sam quite a few times. (Self-pity is only cool to me when I’m doing it.) ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/39 "2006-09-12T05:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] There’s fifteen, all of them at least trilogies, off the top of my head, all arguably better than Harry Potter. (Didn’t even mention Redwall.) I mean, I like Harry too, but there’s a lot of really, really good stuff out there. [/QUOTE] It’s a good thing you didn’t mention Redwall, 'cause let’s face it- Redwall is some pretty poor writing. Flat and repetitive characters, preachy plots and dialogue, and the single worst example of formula writing I’ve ever seen in the sequels (Fortress besieged by army, small group of rodents sneak out to recover the Magic Whatsit or rescue a kidnap victim. Yawn.) While I might argue with some of your other choices, I’ll agree that Potter is not the end-all and be-all of children’s fantasy. Still, of those of your choices that I have read (Earthsea, His Dark Materials, Wrinkle, Earthsea, Narnia), they all have a truly exemplary first book, followed by some mediocre ones. I think Rowling has done a reasonably good job of maintaining quality throughout her books. > [@Smokinjbc](#): > > Did anyone else read this and think he might also have his bride to kill and Guilder to frame for it? You, sir, win the thread. I suggest you use the winnings to buy me a new keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2006, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116/40 "2006-09-12T13:09:42Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] You, sir, win the thread. I suggest you use the winnings to buy me a new keyboard. [/QUOTE] It’s _lady_ , and thanks 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-last-harry-potter-book-to-be-1500-pages-long/372116.md?page=3)