# New logical fallacy I'm sick of **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800 "2011-05-13T17:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/1 "2011-05-13T17:26:44Z")
There’s a type of argument that seems generally fallacious that I’ve seen a bunch recently, and I’m sick of it. It goes like this: A: I think that when people do X, there’s a tendency for Y to happen B: Wait but can you precisely define exactly what is and is not X? Here are a bunch of examples, please categorize each of them precisely as X or not-X. If you can’t, then X has no meaning, and your whole claim is groundless. [Here’s a recent example.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13796493&postcount=116) What’s so irritating about this is that there’s almost no meaningful concept in the human experience which is so rigorously defined that you can’t come up with borderline cases. “I don’t want to live next to a thief” “But what about someone who stole bread to feed his starving family? Is he a thief or not?”. If we can’t ever discuss anything without being able to fully and 100% accurately define all our base terms down to being able to instantly categorize every possible example, we’ll never discuss anything. There are certain types of discussions in which in fact it is quite reasonable to discuss how rigorously definable and sortable certain terms are. For instance, if a white separatist wants to pass a law saying no black people can live in his town, then the burden of proof is on him to come up with a rigorous definition that can be applied to potential residents (plus of course he’s racist). But that doesn’t mean that any discussion anyone ever has about race can instantly be ended by pointing out that not everyone fits neatly into “black, white, Asian or Latino”. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/2 "2011-05-13T18:17:04Z")
A major way to win internet arguments is not to win at logic, but rather to make your opponents do a lot of pointless work. In that way, saying something slightly dumb - and making your opponents cover a lot of tedious, obvious rhetorical ground, can be a better strategy than coming up with a counterargument. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/3 "2011-05-13T18:28:24Z")
I wouldn’t call the example in the OP a “logical fallacy”. But I would note that I am fully in favor of women dressing like sluts. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/4 "2011-05-13T18:31:59Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > There’s a type of argument that seems generally fallacious that I’ve seen a bunch recently, and I’m sick of it. > > It goes like this: > A: I think that when people do X, there’s a tendency for Y to happen > B: Wait but can you precisely define exactly what is and is not X? Here are a bunch of examples, please categorize each of them precisely as X or not-X. If you can’t, then X has no meaning, and your whole claim is groundless. > > [Here’s a recent example.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13796493&postcount=116) > What’s so irritating about this is that there’s almost no meaningful concept in the human experience which is so rigorously defined that you can’t come up with borderline cases. “I don’t want to live next to a thief” “But what about someone who stole bread to feed his starving family? Is he a thief or not?”. > > If we can’t ever discuss anything without being able to fully and 100% accurately define all our base terms down to being able to instantly categorize every possible example, we’ll never discuss anything. > There are certain types of discussions in which in fact it is quite reasonable to discuss how rigorously definable and sortable certain terms are. For instance, if a white separatist wants to pass a law saying no black people can live in his town, then the burden of proof is on him to come up with a rigorous definition that can be applied to potential residents (plus of course he’s racist). But that doesn’t mean that any discussion anyone ever has about race can instantly be ended by pointing out that not everyone fits neatly into “black, white, Asian or Latino”. The way I’ve heard this put is like this: “Just because there is such a thing is twilight does not mean there’s no difference between day and night.” ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/5 "2011-05-13T18:45:04Z")
Or: Just because there’s a day and night doesn’t mean there’s not a twilight. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/6 "2011-05-13T19:09:44Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > …there’s not a twilight. We can only dream… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/7 "2011-05-13T19:30:40Z")
I think this is the same kind of argument that people trot out when you say something like, “Traffic in Calgary is terrible!” and they all race in to tell you that no, traffic in Calgary is not terrible because it’s much worse in New York or Boston or Toronto or Vancouver or wherethehellever. My answer to that is, “Just because one thing is worse doesn’t make this thing not bad.” Now I can’t figure out if that is the same kind of thing or not. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/8 "2011-05-13T20:40:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wouldn’t call the example in the OP a “logical fallacy”. But I would note that I am fully in favor of women dressing like sluts. Only if they’re hot. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/9 "2011-05-13T20:49:09Z")
Hey, I’m still trying to figure out if I qualify as a potential serial killer because my parents died when I was young and I was taken in by my aunt and uncle. But they didn’t actually ‘adopt’ me, so does that mean I’m okay? I mean its only the kids who were actually (shudder!) ‘adopted’, who turn into serial killers, right? So, I’m good? In spite of my occasional lapses into murderous rage? Right? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/10 "2011-05-13T21:19:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think this is the same kind of argument that people trot out when you say something like, “Traffic in Calgary is terrible!” and they all race in to tell you that no, traffic in Calgary is not terrible because it’s much worse in New York or Boston or Toronto or Vancouver or wherethehellever. My answer to that is, “Just because one thing is worse doesn’t make this thing not bad.” > > Now I can’t figure out if that is the same kind of thing or not. I don’t even think that’s a fallacy. I think it’s a non-sequitur. Or maybe a strawman, in that they’re arguing against the claim “Traffic in Calgary is the worst in the world”, which you did not make. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/11 "2011-05-13T21:29:42Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t even think that’s a fallacy. I think it’s a non-sequitur. Or maybe a strawman, in that they’re arguing against the claim “Traffic in Calgary is the worst in the world”, which you did not make. You don’t think it’s a fallacy, you just think it’s a fallacy or maybe another fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/12 "2011-05-13T21:33:05Z")
What’s the point of talking about fallacies, if there are some that we can’t classify? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/13 "2011-05-13T21:50:48Z")
You know what fallacy I hate? The fallacy of the excluded middle. Especially when she’s a hot girl and she’s asking for it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/14 "2011-05-13T21:58:42Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t even think that’s a fallacy. I think it’s a non-sequitur. Or maybe a strawman, in that they’re arguing against the claim “Traffic in Calgary is the worst in the world”, which you did not make. It’s the fallacy of The Excluded Middle. Just because the most terrible traffic maybe in New York doesn’t mean that the traffic in Calgary isn’t absolutely terrible. Terrible traffic is not a toggle switch, it’s a continuum. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/15 "2011-05-13T22:56:59Z")
Sounds like the [Continuum Fallacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy) to me. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/16 "2011-05-14T02:32:46Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > Hey, I’m still trying to figure out if I qualify as a potential serial killer because my parents died when I was young and I was taken in by my aunt and uncle. But they didn’t actually ‘adopt’ me, so does that mean I’m okay? I mean its only the kids who were actually (shudder!) ‘adopted’, who turn into serial killers, right? > > So, I’m good? In spite of my occasional lapses into murderous rage? > > Right? If I agree with you, will you put down the flamethrower? ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/17 "2011-05-14T03:27:35Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > If I agree with you, will you put down the flamethrower? Why, yes! Absolutely, I will put aside the flamethrower! See? I’m a reasonable person - it’s not like I was adopted or something crazy like that! A little switchblade in the pocket, you know - just in case it turns out that YOU’RE adopted - well that’s okay right? Just a little insurance…y’know, never know if someone may have grown up in an unfriendly environment where, yeah - sure, of course, THEY LIKED YOUR COUSINS BEST! no big deal… :mad: But I’m not bitter… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/18 "2011-05-14T03:31:59Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > What’s the point of talking about fallacies, if there are some that we can’t classify? Well played, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/19 "2011-05-14T17:11:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wouldn’t call the example in the OP a “logical fallacy”. I would. I’d even call it… > [@DarrenS](#): > > Sounds like the [Continuum Fallacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy) to me. Damn you! Damn you for being so fast that you beat my post by 19 hours! I was _thiiiis_ close, I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800/20 "2011-05-14T17:41:36Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I would. I’d even call it… > > Damn you! Damn you for being so fast that you beat my post by 19 hours! I was _thiiiis_ close, I tell you! But a “continuum” is not well defined. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-logical-fallacy-im-sick-of/581800.md?page=2)