# New Mac ads.... ??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879 "2008-10-28T01:07:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/41 "2008-10-29T04:24:06Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Even Microsoft has admitted there are major problems with the Vista rollout. Major problems? No they haven’t. I have never had a problem with Vista that wasn’t related directly to the limitations of the hardware on my computer. Vista isn’t as forgiving as XP and 98 was with sub par hardware. I think this is a great deal of the problems that people had with Vista. > [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Vista has been out for almost two years and they’re still shipping a significant portion of new PCs with XP on it. That’s a huge problem. Show me a significant portion of new PCs that are loaded with XP. If by significant, you mean less than 10%, I’ll point you to the definition of significant. > [@beowulff](#): > > The fact of the matter is, if I buy a Windows box, I MUST buy AV software or risk getting infected. I haven’t been running AV software or anything else for a couple of years now. I’ll do a scan right before doing a reinstall (about every 6 months), but I never find anything. Of course, I stay away from a lot of sites that are breading grounds for viruses and malware. The point is that Apple’s software is no better than Microsoft’s. Apple just enjoys a shelter from a great deal of malware because they are practically an insignificant target. When you get 15% or better of computer users installing your software or using your hardware, then you’ll begin to matter to malicious users. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/42 "2008-10-29T04:29:03Z")
I think the ads are misleading. Just like virtually every ad from Microsoft, Dell, Verizon… They’re amusing. But the point behind them (Vista has lots of problems) is certainly true in my experience. I think they’re making a lot of money by charging people $100 or more to “downgrade” to Windows XP. I’d do it, except that some software my wife uses requires Vista. It took me several hours of fussing and downloading drivers to get her peripherals (printer, scanner, camera, Bluetooth mouse…) working on Vista. I plugged them all into my Mac and they worked. No dialog boxes. No downloaded drivers. No alerts. They just appeared on the menus in the appropriate spots. Several of our old programs stopped working when we moved to Vista. I could go on and on and on… > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Apparently,[the ads are working](http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/102774/Microsoft-Windows%3A-The-Beginning-of-the-End). Holy cow! Here’s the most telling quote in the article, as far as I’m concerned: [QUOTE=Yahoo Article] Of the top 10 bestselling laptops on Amazon today, 7 are netbooks (70%). The other three are Apple Macs, which also don’t run Windows. None of the 7 net books costs more than $500. Of the 7, only 1 (one) runs Windows Vista. [/QUOTE] > [@Magiver](#): > > Or put another way, MAC is overpriced so nobody buys it and therefore an unpopular platform to hack. Still, it’s a good selling point. You’re repeating an old meme from the days when Macs ran on Motorola chips instead of Intel/AMD. I was helping a local nonprofit with a new computer acquisition a couple of months ago. They specced out exactly what they needed and got a quote (it was, IIRC five workstations and a server) from Dell and a quote from Apple. The Dell quote was over $500 higher. When I upgraded my main work computer (I use it for newspaper editing, layout, Web design, and photo work), the Mac ended up almost exactly the same price as the equivalent PCs I looked at. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/43 "2008-10-29T04:30:02Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I think the Mac is inherently more secure than Windows, although not invulnerable. [macfixitforums.com](http://macfixitforums.com) has an assload of members that would disagree with you about stability and security. If the Mac is such a perfect little machine, then why does a site like this even exist after 10 years? ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/44 "2008-10-29T04:35:29Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > II plugged them all into my Mac and they worked. No dialog boxes. No downloaded drivers. No alerts. They just appeared on the menus in the appropriate spots. That’s an incredibly easy thing to accomplish when you make all the hardware for your software. The Apple OS need only work on the handful of machines that Apple makes. Microsoft’s applications have to work on computers containing BILLIONS of different combinations of hardware created by other manufacturers. Apple’s OS could never work with all the hardware that Microsoft’s Vista or XP does. Now, I know that it is up to these manufacturers to make the hardware per PC specifications, so MS can port their software along a set guideline, but how often do these manufacturers make sub par product and then Vista gets blamed for it when it doesn’t work right? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/45 "2008-10-29T04:36:02Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Show me a significant portion of new PCs that are loaded with XP. See what I quoted a few posts ago from the link **UncleRojelio** provided. It says that 5 out of the top 10 bestselling laptop computers on Amazon as of October 27, 2008 are loaded with Windows XP. > [@Euthanasiast](#): > > [macfixitforums.com](http://macfixitforums.com) has an assload of members that would disagree with you about stability and security. If the Mac is such a perfect little machine, then why does a site like this even exist after 10 years? The Mac’s not a perfect little machine. There’s no such thing as a perfect little machine. It has troubles. It’s just that for every hour I’ve spent dealing with Mac problems, I’ve spent ten hours fussing with equivalent problems on Windows. There are more problems, they’re more insidious, and they take longer to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/46 "2008-10-29T04:46:53Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > See what I quoted a few posts ago from the link **UncleRojelio** provided. It says that 5 out of the top 10 bestselling laptop computers on Amazon as of October 27, 2008 are loaded with Windows XP. Okay, that’s 5 total computers (laptops) accounted for. So far this is not a significant number. > [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > It’s just that for every hour I’ve spent dealing with Mac problems, I’ve spent ten hours fussing with equivalent problems on Windows. What you are saying is that Windows has ten times the problems that Mac does, and we know that Apple has 8% of the market share. I’ll let you do the math on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/47 "2008-10-29T04:47:14Z")
As an avid PC user who was forced to use Macs for many years my amount of Mac problems to PC problems ratio was about 3:1 I’ve had Macs freeze on me, randomly shut down on me, lose my stuff…everything that PCs do, only more often. Also, I have had Vista since it came out and I have NEVER had a problem with it. Last but not least…as much as I hate Mac commercials there is one that I hate most of all. The “Macs are most popular on college campuses” one. I really want to see the facts for that, and what campuses they went to. I bring it up because my wonderful college was primarily a teachers college, and a telecommunications college. The teachers college (about a third of campus) REQUIRED their students to have a Mac laptop and another third, the T-com kids…all used Macs because they’re better media computers. That’s two thirds of my campus…if they polled mostly colleges like mine…then their numbers would be truthfully skewed ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/48 "2008-10-30T23:28:20Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Okay, that’s 5 total computers (laptops) accounted for. So far this is not a significant number. A grand total of five laptop computers, no. But five laptops _out of the top ten bestselling on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)_ using XP is a significant number. Especially when _ONE_ out of those ten uses Vista. > [@Euthanasiast](#): > > What you are saying is that Windows has ten times the problems that Mac does, and we know that Apple has 8% of the market share. I’ll let you do the math on that one. Here’s the math: As a single individual, the market share matters not at all. Zero. Zilch. Zip. If one operating system has ten time the problems, ten times the viruses, and it takes ten times as long to get new devices working with it, then I don’t want to use that operating system. Why does the market share even factor into the equation? ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/49 "2008-10-31T04:32:29Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > A grand total of five laptop computers, no. But five laptops _out of the top ten bestselling on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)_ using XP is a significant number. Especially when _ONE_ out of those ten uses Vista. > > Here’s the math: As a single individual, the market share matters not at all. Zero. Zilch. Zip. If one operating system has ten time the problems, ten times the viruses, and it takes ten times as long to get new devices working with it, then I don’t want to use that operating system. Why does the market share even factor into the equation? It factors in the equation because the \*\*ONLY \*\*reason that Windows Operating Systems are ate up with viruses and malicious software and Apple is not is because Apple makes up 8% of all computers in use today, and Microsoft-based computers are nearly 90%. Swap the numbers and the Apple OS is the shitty one (because they are the big target) and Windows seems edgy and elegant and free of all the malicious software by comparison. I’ve used Mac OS. It’s just as crappy as anything MS has put out and in some ways it’s worse. It simply enjoys an umbrella of protection because it isn’t a primary target for attack. This is because such a low percentage of people are using it, \*\*NOT \*\*because it can withstand attacks better than Windows. If you think that Apple makes computers that aren’t being attacked because they are immune, then you know precious little about the software that you use. If we can’t agree on that, then I don’t know what else to say. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/50 "2008-10-31T06:40:05Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Just think of how much acclaim the first successful OS X virus writer would get, and it hasn’t happened yet, in the almost nine years since OS X was released. Are there really no viruses for Macs? I don’t know, but my brother-in-law, who is pretty computer savvy, says that there are, and a quick perusal of the Google results for mac viruses seems to bear him out. Or, to put it another way, cite? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/51 "2008-10-31T07:19:19Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > It factors in the equation because the \*\*ONLY \*\*reason that Windows Operating Systems are ate up with viruses and malicious software and Apple is not is because Apple makes up 8% of all computers in use today, and Microsoft-based computers are nearly 90%. We’re just not communicating here. This is what I think we’re both saying: YOU: Vista is worse than OS/X _ONLY_ because Windows has 10x the marketshare. ME: Vista is worse than OS/X _and I don’t care why_. I keep saying that marketshare doesn’t matter, because all I see is that it took me a half-hour to hook up a camera to Vista and under a minute to hook up the same camera to OS/X; that I’ve had to deal with malware on Vista but never on OS/X; that Vista won’t network with my old Windows Me server but OS/X will. You keep throwing out hypothetical strawmen claiming that IF OS/X ever got 10x the marketshare of Windows, it would become worse than Vista. But it hasn’t, and it isn’t, and your hypothetical doesn’t matter. Right now, today, I find OS/X considerably less troublesome, more reliable, and more productive than Vista. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/52 "2008-10-31T10:18:04Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > We’re just not communicating here. This is what I think we’re both saying: > > YOU: Vista is worse than OS/X _ONLY_ because Windows has 10x the marketshare. Almost. I’m actually saying that Vista is better than OS/X _DESPITE_ being the bigger market share and being the biggest target and despite all of its problems. But I realize that is primarily an opinion (though I have genuinely good reasons\*) and I don’t expect you to care either way. \*Apple computer performance is not up to par with PC hardware (nothing to do with OS/X or Vista), and I can’t use all of the major applications I’d like on a Mac, etc. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/53 "2008-10-31T12:44:42Z")
I don’t see why there’s an argument between the two OSs. I’d happily use a Mac if it weren’t more expensive. If a person knows what to do, there’s not much difference. I will say this: Apple ads have often been very insulting. There was the “Think different” thing. Actually, Apple, originally most people chose your machines because they didn’t have to think much to use them, while using DOS required more thought. Then there was, “It comes in colors.” Who the f\*\*\* cares about the color of the plastic shell around the machine? If you think I care, I’m not going to be your customer. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/54 "2008-10-31T13:57:06Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Almost. I’m actually saying that Vista is better than OS/X _DESPITE_ being the bigger market share and being the biggest target and despite all of its problems. > > But I realize that is primarily an opinion (though I have genuinely good reasons\*) and I don’t expect you to care either way. > > \*Apple computer performance is not up to par with PC hardware (nothing to do with OS/X or Vista), and I can’t use all of the major applications I’d like on a Mac, etc. You have clearly been deluding yourself for a while. Apple’s pro machines are consistently rated at the top of the list when compared to all major manufacturers. As an example: > **[Magazines Direct | PC Pro Magazine Subscription](https://www.magazinesdirect.com/us/pc-pro-subscription/dp/8ce631dc)** and [http://www.switched.com/2007/10/31/fastest-pc-notebook-is-a-mac/](http://www.switched.com/2007/10/31/fastest-pc-notebook-is-a-mac/) I suppose it’s possible to build a faster machine using overclocking and oil-bath cooling, but to complain that Apple doesn’t make fast enough machines is just lame. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/55 "2008-10-31T13:57:32Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Running MS software is like sex: exercise caution and you’ll likely not catch anything. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Unless you’re raped by a drug addict. Which can be avoided by moving to a monestary or convent, thus going celibate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/56 "2008-10-31T14:08:21Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > You have clearly been deluding yourself for a while. Apple’s pro machines are consistently rated at the top of the list when compared to all major manufacturers. As an example: > [Magazines Direct | PC Pro Magazine Subscription](http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95175/apple-mac-pro-is-crowned-the-fastest-pc-in-the-uk.html) > and > [http://www.switched.com/2007/10/31/fastest-pc-notebook-is-a-mac/](http://www.switched.com/2007/10/31/fastest-pc-notebook-is-a-mac/) > I suppose it’s possible to build a faster machine using overclocking and oil-bath cooling, but to complain that Apple doesn’t make fast enough machines is just lame. My current machine is a 2.6 overclocked to 3.4ghz, and my RAM is overclocked as well. I’m using fan cooling only. I’m also using dual SLI cards for improved graphics performance. I’m also using Raptor drives with 10,000 RPM speed. These next questions are actually genuine, because I’m not sure (but I suspect the answer is no): Can you do any of this with an Apple? Can you even upgrade processors, RAM, mainboards, Video cards, etc.? Are do you have to just buy a whole new machine? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/57 "2008-10-31T14:19:32Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > My current machine is a 2.6 overclocked to 3.4ghz, and my RAM is overclocked as well. I’m using fan cooling only. I’m also using dual SLI cards for improved graphics performance. I’m also using Raptor drives with 10,000 RPM speed. These next questions are actually genuine, because I’m not sure (but I suspect the answer is no): Can you do any of this with an Apple? Can you even upgrade processors, RAM, mainboards, Video cards, etc.? Are do you have to just buy a whole new machine? All Pro machines have socketed processors, so they can be upgraded: [http://www.o0o.it/pro/](http://www.o0o.it/pro/) Of course, you can add RAM, up to a maximum of 32GB. Video cards are replaceable. I don’t think the mothererboard is a standard formfactor, so that isn’t upgradeable. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/58 "2008-10-31T18:56:45Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I’d like to know where these [millions of viruses and malware and errors](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10370397&postcount=16) are hiding at. I’ve had three in 20 years; one was entirely my fault for not paying attention where I clicked. > > Running MS software is like sex: exercise caution and you’ll likely not catch anything. Not true. For example, \*Snopes \*had several pop-up or pop-under ads that had malware attacks built into them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/59 "2008-10-31T19:17:40Z")
Pop-up ads can be blocked. Never had a problem with a Snopes pop-up or pop-under, and [Symantec has nothing about an about:blank trojan](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6927283&postcount=22). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879/60 "2008-10-31T19:40:44Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > I’m a lifetime Microsoft guy, but even I have to disagree with this. As one example only; I cannot use Internet Explorer on my computer.Short of reinstalling the OS, it’s just the way it is. This isn’t a problem for the most part because I use Firefox for 99% of everything I need a browser for; but it still pisses me off just the same. Is this happening to a lot of people? I’ve used IE on plenty of Vista machines without even a hint of a problem. -FrL- [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mac-ads/469879.md?page=4)