# New Malaysia Airlines Crash **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367 "2014-07-17T15:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/61 "2014-07-17T19:16:23Z")
They probably were a lot of urgent calls sent to local commander, by all sides when the news broke. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/62 "2014-07-17T19:19:56Z")
[Let the conspiracy theories begin](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/malaysian-airlines-boeing-777-crashes-near-ukraine-russia-border-interfax-reports). My favorite so far is the numerology one with all the 7’s. Not that any particular reason is given why seven would be significant, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/63 "2014-07-17T19:20:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > BTW, Who is guilty, the freedom fighters, the Russkies or the Government? None of them are exactly kittens here. I am pretty sure it wasn’t Ukrainian government. They have no one to shoot at in the sky, since the “insurgents” have no air force. Ukraine, though, does have the air force and the “insurgents” have shot down several of their planes. Occam’s razor… ---
**Author:** ![Saffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saffer/32/6440_2.png) [@Saffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saffer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/64 "2014-07-17T19:28:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am pretty sure it wasn’t Ukrainian government. They have no one to shoot at in the sky, since the “insurgents” have no air force. Ukraine, though, does have the air force and the “insurgents” have shot down several of their planes. Occam’s razor… If I had to come up with a motive for the Ukrainian Government it would be along the lines that they stand to benefit from giving western governments an opportunity to get more directly involved. But, that does sound like the plot of a James Bond movie. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/65 "2014-07-17T19:29:04Z")
[From the AP:](http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-air-force-jet-downed-russian-missile-24598894) > [@](#): > > An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/66 "2014-07-17T19:29:27Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I don’t read Russian so I can’t translate this. > > Supposedly, at the time the plane went down, the Separatists tweeted that they had just shot down a Ukraine jet. The tweet has since vanished. Supposedly, the thinking goes, the Separatists misidentified the Malaysian airliner as a Ukrainian plane. > > This may all be speculation. It makes more sense than either Ukrainians or Russians or Ukrainian-Russians deliberately shooting up a Malaysian flight out of Amsterdam. > > [http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017](http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017) The article (from Russian TASS agency) says that the pro-Russian separatists announced today (July 17) that they shot down an AN-26 Ukrainian military transport plane near the city of Torez. Torez is where the 777 crashed. Looks very much like that’s the 777 and that it’s the “insurgents” in Eastern Ukraine that shot it down. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/67 "2014-07-17T19:29:47Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Well, the separatists capturing a BUK system makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Russians giving some to these doofuses. A lot of the separatists are equipped, clothed and act surprisingly like Russian special forces. Maybe they resigned to take part. Just like the Flying Tigers did in WWII. The U.S. State Department has made statements that Russia has given armored vehicles to the separatists. If they made that public then it was verifiable. Who knows what else has been passed over the border? Preliminary reports I saw on TV state that the crash sight is in the hands of the separatists. That will complicate the investigation to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/68 "2014-07-17T19:39:37Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’ve read that, too. Here’s an English language article from the New Republic about the BUK system. Apparently it’s a soviet era machine that doesn’t have sophisticated identification capabilities. It claims that BUK operators can spot a plane, but can’t identify it in detail … which seems like the kind of thing you’d kind of want to include if you’re designing an anti-aircraft system … But what do I know. > > [Malaysian Airlines Plane Shot Down in Ukraine: Was It Intentional? | The New Republic](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118743/malaysian-airlines-plane-shot-down-ukraine-was-it-intentional) If it was an SA-11 it would get that info from the search radar that would designate it as a target. Most RF SAM systems can act stand alone and some can even fire optically with no radar at all. It’s the most degraded mode of operation but still very effective. Newer systems have IFF capabilities or use other means of identification but you are talking about something that has been around since the late 70s/ early 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/69 "2014-07-17T19:49:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The U.S. State Department has made statements that Russia has given armored vehicles to the separatists. If they made that public then it was verifiable. Who knows what else has been passed over the border? Sorry, but I’m not willing to take the State Department’s word on that. This is the same State Department which told us the Bengazi attack was prompted by that stupid movie, and stuck by that story long after they knew it wasn’t true. The US is hardly a disinterested party in this, so I’m really not inclined to give their/our claims much more credance than I give Russia’s claims. ETA: At this point, my operating theory is that it was the seperatists, using equipment they captured from the Ukrainian army earlier in the conflict. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/70 "2014-07-17T20:10:27Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > They probably were a lot of urgent calls sent to local commander, by all sides when the news broke. I’m guessing the transcript was something like . “Phooey, Tell Fearless Leader I have missed Squirrel, and hit airliner” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/71 "2014-07-17T20:19:41Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I’m guessing the transcript was something like . > > “Phooey, Tell Fearless Leader I have missed Squirrel, and hit airliner” CNN is just now reporting that that is effectively what happened, according to the Ukraine. They are translating a conversation that Ukraine claims to have tapped in on between the separatists and Russian intelligence. The separatist is reporting that they shot down a Ukrainian plane, and on inspection it turned out to be a civilian airliner. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/72 "2014-07-17T20:46:50Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Sorry, but I’m not willing to take the State Department’s word on that. This is the same State Department which told us the Bengazi attack was prompted by that stupid movie, and stuck by that story long after they knew it wasn’t true. The US is hardly a disinterested party in this, so I’m really not inclined to give their/our claims much more credance than I give Russia’s claims. > > ETA: At this point, my operating theory is that it was the seperatists, using equipment they captured from the Ukrainian army earlier in the conflict. Sure, its easy to dismiss anything anyone says about anything. I await your first hand report from the region. In the mean time… > [@](#): > > A rebel leader, Denis Pushilin, told Russian state TV on Friday that the separatists had tanks but that it was “improper to ask” where they got them. That was after the reports that tanks were moving from a staging area in Russia into Ukraine. > **[Russia Sent Tanks to Separatists in Ukraine, U.S. Says (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/14/world/europe/ukraine-claims-full-control-of-port-city-of-mariupol.html?_r=0)** > > After the State Department said that Russia had sent weapons to rebels in Ukraine, separatists using antiaircraft and heavy machine guns fired on a military transport plane in Luhansk, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/73 "2014-07-17T20:57:16Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > CNN is just now reporting that that is effectively what happened, according to the Ukraine. They are translating a conversation that Ukraine claims to have tapped in on between the separatists and Russian intelligence. The separatist is reporting that they shot down a Ukrainian plane, and on inspection it turned out to be a civilian airliner. The interesting part of the story is that the Buk SAM system (which is apparently what was used to shoot down the plane) is not something that you just turn on and use. You have to have some extensively trained personnel to operate it effectively. The question is - where did the “insurgents” find the personnel for it? Could it be from the neighbor to the East? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/74 "2014-07-17T21:02:42Z")
Could be, or ex-military. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/75 "2014-07-17T21:28:26Z")
When we lived in Saudi Arabia , it was during the ‘no fly zone’ across Iraq. The commercial airlines we flew did not fly over Iraq, even if it was the direct route. ---
**Author:** ![Artemis\_Tardis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Artemis\_Tardis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Artemis_Tardis)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/76 "2014-07-17T21:32:53Z")
I would be careful about the tweets - they could easily be photoshopped. Twitter must have a registry of the said tweets. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/77 "2014-07-17T21:36:24Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Could be, or ex-military. There are not that many Buk-qualified people around. How very convenient to have them on the ground for the “insurgents” in Eastern Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/78 "2014-07-17T21:37:29Z")
> [@Artemis\_Tardis](#): > > I would be careful about the tweets - they could easily be photoshopped. Twitter must have a registry of the said tweets. [http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017](http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017) - that is pretty authoritative. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/79 "2014-07-17T21:42:19Z")
We’ve already had the mandatory camera appearance by John McCain taking shots at Obama over this. What a fucking douche. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/80 "2014-07-17T21:48:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > We’ve already had the mandatory camera appearance by John McCain taking shots at Obama over this. What a fucking douche. Well I was _wondering_ whose fault this was. It couldn’t be the idiots with missiles and astigmatism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367.md?page=5)