# New Malaysia Airlines Crash **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367 "2014-07-17T15:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/81 "2014-07-17T22:26:03Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I don’t read Russian so I can’t translate this. You can always go to Google Translate: > **[Ополченцы провозглашенной ДНР сбили самолет Ан-26 украинских ВВС - ТАСС](https://tass-ru.translate.goog/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en)** > > Как сообщают очевидцы, самолет был подбит ракетой в районе города Торез, после чего стал терять высоту, рухнул на землю и сгорел ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/82 "2014-07-17T22:31:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are not that many Buk-qualified people around. How very convenient to have them on the ground for the “insurgents” in Eastern Ukraine. And who happen to be in contact with Russian military intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/83 "2014-07-17T22:57:14Z")
> [@Artemis\_Tardis](#): > > I would be careful about the tweets - they could easily be photoshopped. Twitter must have a registry of the said tweets. Google’s cache certainly does [https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112) ---
**Author:** ![PurpleClogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@PurpleClogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurpleClogs)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/84 "2014-07-17T23:07:20Z")
Looked to me by some of the photos there were 2 different sources of smoke shortly after the crash. I wonder if that’s just a 2nd debris site or if thaw smaller one is related to the launch site of the suspected missile? I worry that physical evidence to prove the cause will be stolen or destroyed before a proper investigation can be done. Poor Malaysia. Who will fly on that airline now? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/85 "2014-07-17T23:11:26Z")
black boxes in Russia already according to tv. the aircraft was spread over miles because it came apart high up due to the missile hit. ---
**Author:** ![PurpleClogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@PurpleClogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurpleClogs)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/86 "2014-07-17T23:16:51Z")
I sure hope the families were notified before they saw anything on the news. So sad. ---
**Author:** ![Timchik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@Timchik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timchik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/87 "2014-07-17T23:19:35Z")
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo) has the intercepted conversations between separatists talking about the plane, with English subtitles. The translation is pretty accurate - the only real mistake is that where they talk about Kazaks - it should read Cossacks. This was posted by a pro-Ukrainian account, and the intercept is claimed to be from the Ukrainian Security Service, so take it with whatever amount of salt you deem necessary. Pretty damning, if authentic. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/88 "2014-07-17T23:20:00Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > black boxes in Russia already according to tv. > > the aircraft was spread over miles because it came apart high up due to the missile hit. CNN is saying a significant portion of it hit the ground intact because the plume is the fuel going up, which means the tanks weren’t ruptured at altitude. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/89 "2014-07-17T23:37:33Z")
> [@PurpleClogs](#): > > I sure hope the families were notified before they saw anything on the news. So sad. there may be confusion because the flight also had a KLM number. ---
**Author:** ![chelovek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@chelovek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chelovek)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/90 "2014-07-18T00:19:21Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I don’t read Russian so I can’t translate this. > > Supposedly, at the time the plane went down, the Separatists tweeted that they had just shot down a Ukraine jet. The tweet has since vanished. Supposedly, the thinking goes, the Separatists misidentified the Malaysian airliner as a Ukrainian plane. > > This may all be speculation. It makes more sense than either Ukrainians or Russians or Ukrainian-Russians deliberately shooting up a Malaysian flight out of Amsterdam. > > [http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017](http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017) I read Russian. This article says, in its relevant part, as follows: > [@](#): > > **Volunteer fighters of the proclaimed Democratic People’s Republic downed a Ukrainian airforce An-26 plane** > > International review 17 July, 19:04 UTC+4 > > According to witness reports, the plane was hit by a missile in the vicinity of the town of Torez, following which it began to lose altitude, fell to the ground and burned down. > > DONETSK, 17 July. /ITAR-TASS/. Volunteer fighters of the proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) downed a Ukrainian airforce An-26 military transport plane in the vicinity of the town of Torez. This is being reported by witnesses in the area. > > According to their reports, the plane was hit by a missile, following which it began to lose altitude, fell to the ground and burned down. The rest of the article recites reports about a previous successful destruction of an An-26 aircraft by another “volunteer fighter” group. It is pertinent to note that: [ol] [li]this article was published by Itar Tass, which is a major and long-established state-owned Russian news agency;[/li][li]it would appear from the stamp that this article was published at 19:04 UTC+4 or, in other words, 15:04 UTC; and[/li][li]the photo used in the article appears to be a stock photo from the earlier An-26 crash site (given that it appears in the [report of the 14 July hit](http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1316668)).[/li][/ol] MH17 is reported to have lost contact at 14:15 GMT, or 13:15 UTC. So, the article follows the event by two hours. Either there really was an An-26 downed on 17 July in addition to MH17 (both of them near Torez) or, unbeknownst to the authors, this article is actually reporting the separatists downing MH17. Now, aside from being a propeller aircraft, An-26 is also considerably smaller than a 777. But it is still a very substantial aircraft and, without claiming any kind of military expertise, I doubt that at the kind of distances that the Buk launcher can hit out to visual identification works well enough to tell a 777 from an An-26. We will probably never know for sure, but my money currently says the separatists blew up MH17 in a case of mistaken identity. It’s just the kind of thing that is liable to happen when people get access to tools which they are not properly qualified to use. Let’s spare a thought for the dead. And for the no doubt many more soon to be dead. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/91 "2014-07-18T00:28:24Z")
I flew Malaysia Airlines from KL to Paris exactly two weeks ago. As usual, we flew right across Ukraine, from one end to the other. (As on previous such flights, I remarked to my wife how much the landscape – from 30,000 feet up – reminded me of our Kansas). I recall thinking that stuff was going on down there, but I wasn’t aware it was a hot war in recent weeks. I was a bit more apprehensive that we often also fly over Afghanistan; but even with that, it didn’t occur to me that commercial airlines do sometimes avoid airspace above conflict areas, any more than if they, say, avoided flying over the Arctic (which many fly over every day) because it’s so cold. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/92 "2014-07-18T00:28:46Z")
It sounds like outright murder. A plane simply flying through a standard commercial air corridor is shot down? If I understand the news reports this plane had no connection to the Ukraine? Planes have to fly over countries all the time. I hope the families get some justice for their loss. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/93 "2014-07-18T00:33:22Z")
> [@PurpleClogs](#): > > Poor Malaysia. Who will fly on that airline now? True. They were in financial trouble BEFORE the disappearance of 370, worse after, and now this. Too bad, because I’ve been impressed by their comfort and service on the six occasions I’ve flown with them. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/94 "2014-07-18T00:48:16Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > black boxes in Russia already according to tv. Anyone want to bet the data will be erased or edited? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/95 "2014-07-18T00:55:37Z")
Does black box data even matter at this point though? Nothing went wrong with the plane, and it’s not like the pilots or anyone could have reacted anything sensible to a missile strike. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/96 "2014-07-18T00:56:51Z")
> [@Timchik](#): > > [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo) has the intercepted conversations between separatists talking about the plane, with English subtitles. The translation is pretty accurate - the only real mistake is that where they talk about Kazaks - it should read Cossacks. > This was posted by a pro-Ukrainian account, and the intercept is claimed to be from the Ukrainian Security Service, so take it with whatever amount of salt you deem necessary. > Pretty damning, if authentic. This is the smoking gun. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/97 "2014-07-18T01:24:07Z")
I think at this point there’s a reasonable conclusion to be drawn that pro-Russian separatists did this. The question is, what is the rest of the world going to do about it? Pick their collective noses, it sounds like. With Russia and China becoming more belligerent, it seems less and less likely that the post WWII peace is going to last… Ukraine sounds basically like Cold War shenanigans at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/98 "2014-07-18T01:34:19Z")
Apparently back in April there were already warnings by aviation authorities in the U.S. and Europe about avoiding Ukrainian airspace but some airlines were ignoring them in order to save money. > **[MH17 disaster: Flights over war zones 'because it's cheaper'](https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/mh17-disaster-flights-over-war-zones-because-its-cheaper-20140718-zua0y.html)** > > Airlines were warned in April to avoid airspace over Ukraine, but experts suggest they preferred to save money on fuel. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/99 "2014-07-18T02:15:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Anyone want to bet the data will be erased or edited? It would not really change anything at this point. So there is no real point to erasing or editing. Between what the Ukrainians have interceped, and what the NSA is reaping in Moscow, with frantic calls going hither and yon. At this point, the Russians are going to be looking at Compensation and reparations to the airline and passengers What kind of diplomatic sanctions from Europe Or Moscow decides to double down and cross the border in strength Declan ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367/100 "2014-07-18T03:29:10Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > [Let the conspiracy theories begin](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/malaysian-airlines-boeing-777-crashes-near-ukraine-russia-border-interfax-reports). > > My favorite so far is the numerology one with all the 7’s. Not that any particular reason is given why seven would be significant, of course. [Some more](http://illuminatiwatcher.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-conspiracy-theories/). _My_ favorite is that this was really the plane that disappeared in March, that “aliens took it, kept it for several months, and now they’re dropping it back off but the governments want to cover it up and take out the witnesses.” > [@PurpleClogs](#): > > Poor Malaysia. Who will fly on that airline now? I said after the March disappearance that we had flown them before and would not hesitate to again, but now I dunno. I know it’s probably not their fault they got blown out of the sky way up there by some dipshit rebels, but I might still feel too squicky getting on board one now regardless of what my rational self might say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-malaysia-airlines-crash/693367.md?page=6)