No economic sanctions against Russia. Really? Let the US sanction the guy in your backyard, but you’re ok with Russia annexing the old soviet bloc? Just… crazy.
Maybe it’s gas. If so, get off the gas. You’re feeding a monster.
[QUOTE=WSJ]
U.S. officials say they now suspect that Russia supplied the rebels with multiple SA-11 antiaircraft systems by smuggling them into eastern Ukraine with other military equipment, including tanks.
Further, U.S. officials believe the systems were moved back across the border into Russia following the shoot down of the jetliner, buttressing what Ukraine charges is an attempt by the rebels and their Russian advisers to cover up their involvement in the crash.
“The assumption is they’re trying to remove evidence of what they did,” said a senior U.S. official briefed on the latest intelligence.
[/quote]
Maybe prescient. But I have to say, those bases were overrun weeks and months ago, why shoot down planes now, and not when they just got the things?
I dunno. I’m still not prepared to believe Russia was actually dumb enough to give these bozos SAM systems. I’m more prepared to believe said bozos overran some bases earlier, and have recently figured out how to use the systems.
And the aforementiond “people who desperately want to believe Russia is some kind of comic book supervillain” includes a substantial portion of the US government, so I think we should bear in mind that US reports are likely bias. And apparently this is all based on Ukrainian intelligence (or so the news this morning reported). Besides the seperatists themselves, they’re just about the least-disinterested source you could find.
New reports say that the seperatists have agreed to turn over the black boxes to Malaysian authorities. They’ve also agreed to turn over the bodies to the Dutch.
So, I take it earlier reports that said the black boxes had been sent to Russia were false?
Either that, or more likely, Russia has decided that holding on to them is more damaging to their side than having the “rebels” hand them over. Perhaps after reading them to ensure there was nothing damaging on them (or worse, tampering with them).
Why would the offer by the “rebels” today mean that the Russians didn’t have the Black Boxes yesterday? The two obviously have a close relationship.
The Ukranians have intelligence film of the missiles going back to Russia. We also know where the launcher taken from the government is - not anywhere close to the site. There is doubt that the separatists could have fired it by themselves in any case. The real question is was it a Russian finger on the trigger?
Well, firstly, are you American? Because an American should know all about pulling punches when it comes to countries that supply them with fossil fuels. There are also other ways to feed monsters, like supplying loonies with weapons.
It’s a lot easier to impose economic sanctions on countries when you don’t have a lot of economic ties with them. As I understand it, David Cameron will push for economic sanctions tomorrow. Obviously it will have to be debated and an agreement will have to be reached - the decision can’t be made instantly.
I’m not American, but I understand that gas is being held hostage. I get that. I don’t think America should pull its punches either. But the situation in Saudi, for example, is completely different from what’s happening in the Ukraine. Did the Saudis annex part of their neighbour? The last time that happened, the US kinda went in and kicked ass (Iraq/Kuwait).
You can’t do that with Russia. I understand. But sitting back and saying oh well it’s just Ukraine, we can’t do anything about that - really? Oh it’s ok, helicopter carriers psh whatever. Really?? We just let them have Crimea, it’s ok they’ll stop there.
I hope this does light a fire under the EU’s collective asses. If they can’t even be bothered to impose sanctions or even call Russia a naughty boy, hey, it’s not my backyard.
Hollande just announced that the delivery of the second helicopter carrier to Russia will be tied to Russia’s “attitude” on Ukraine. For what it’s worth.
Sanctions have been imposed, just not economic sanctions. And France isn’t the EU. The EU is not selling helicopter carriers to Russia. Besides which, Russia can get all the weapons it wants from other sources, unlike, say, Afghan Mujahideen.
The Gulf War wasn’t fought despite energy reliance on those involved. It was fought because of it. And several EU countries contributed. Oh, and I don’t seem to recall much ass-kicking when Russia invaded South Ossetia.
The Dutch (of which I am one) are rightly pissed off about the way the recovery of the bodies has been handled. Here our Foreign Minister expresses this very well:
Or, to clarify, if that’s your position, why can’t you phrase it like:
“I hope justice will be done, but I think it’s politically hard to do for small country that doesn’t seem to want to endanger its trade”.
Which I might even agree with. But if someone you loved died, and you see people on telly with their rings/clothes/teddy bears, you’d be upset, wouldn’t you? And what do those people have to do with politics?
