# New McCain Doctrine: Preemptive lying **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405 "2008-09-20T05:06:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/101 "2008-09-20T19:29:23Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > That’s it. Off to the corner with you. Just sit there and think about what you’ve done. I’m slinking, I’m slinking. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/102 "2008-09-20T19:42:44Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > So, since you can’t rule out the possibility that I heard somebody say “ **Stratocaster** goes around sniffing little girls’ bicycle seats”, then I have free license to say “I heard that **Stratocaster** goes around sniffing little girls’ bicycle seats”? :rolleyes: That’s a damn lie. He doesn’t have the least interest in sniffing little _girls’_ bicycle seats. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/103 "2008-09-20T20:54:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s a damn lie. He doesn’t have the least interest in sniffing little _girls’_ bicycle seats. Whose bicycle seats I sniff is a matter between me and my God. This is an unwarranted intrusion. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/104 "2008-09-20T20:59:02Z")
Actually, God would just as soon not hear any more about it, if it’s all the same to you… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/105 "2008-09-20T21:50:35Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Oh nonsense. Even I, a non-weasel, can see the obvious loophole there. He never specified _who_ had “no doubt.” Yes, the major intelligence agencies had doubts-- but he wasn’t talking about them. He was just talking about himself personally, or possibly about his imaginary friend that gives him advice sometimes. If the American public assumed that he was claiming the intelligence agencies shared his lack of doubt-- well, you know what they say about ‘assuming’ things. Not true. I’m fairly certain that the most lethal weapons ever devised would be one of the following: 1. Machine Guns 2. Explosives 3. Artillery 4. Sticks 5. Stones I’m fairly certain that one of those five things has killed more people in a conflict than any other weapon, ever. And probably every other weapon combined. I’m certain that Saddam Hussein’s regime possessed at least one, if not more of such weapons. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/106 "2008-09-20T22:42:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You, sir, are confused about what a “lie” is. But you’re in good company–it’s a common malady here on the dope. And you are proof positive of that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/107 "2008-09-21T02:08:07Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Not true. I’m fairly certain that the most lethal weapons ever devised would be one of the following: > > 1. Machine Guns > 2. Explosives > 3. Artillery > 4. Sticks > 5. Stones > > I’m fairly certain that one of those five things has killed more people in a conflict than any other weapon, ever. And probably every other weapon combined. I’m certain that Saddam Hussein’s regime possessed at least one, if not more of such weapons. Ah, you’re “fairly certain,” but not _absolutely_ certain. In the end, your craven intellectual honesty betrays you. You might make a prudent intelligence agent, but the President of the United States can’t allow himself to be straitjacketed by intelligence. Next time pick an answer, and just _stop doubting it._ It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/108 "2008-09-21T02:09:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Because it is perfectly plausible that McCain heard Obama would say that from someone who actually didn’t know jack shit about what Obama was planning to say. > . Sounds like the same person who told Bush that Iraq had WMD. People sure are gullible when they hear what they want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/109 "2008-09-21T03:13:30Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Oh look, an entire thread consisting of arguing with a troll. Good job, guys. > > -Joe Would I be the troll in question? I guess anyone who’s not Obama’s butt-boy is a troll around here, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/110 "2008-09-21T03:16:47Z")
^ That Sir, would be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/111 "2008-09-21T03:20:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > ^ That Sir, would be a lie. No, see he saved it by adding the “,huh?” at the end. See how this works? A question can’t be a lie…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/112 "2008-09-21T03:23:45Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > No, see he saved it by adding the “,huh?” at the end. See how this works? A question can’t be a lie…:rolleyes: Actually, an opinion can’t be a lie, smart guy. I expressed an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/113 "2008-09-21T03:41:39Z")
Actually you asked a question. So you lied again. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/114 "2008-09-21T03:45:55Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Actually you asked a question. So you lied again. Hey, I’m the official troll of this tread. Find your own thread to shit all over. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/115 "2008-09-21T03:54:11Z")
Actually, I never considered you a troll. But I’ll be happy to leave you alone in your thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/116 "2008-09-21T04:00:08Z")
**Rand** ’s not a troll. **John Mace** pulls this exact same shit and he’s definitely no troll. Not quite as often these days, but he used to. What comes across as short-sighted, obstructive pedantry is their overriding need to be 100% precise. They can never seem to put the corrections in the context of believing that what happened was wrong and they just want the charges leveled against the target to be accurate. Since they don’t, it just comes off as stonewalling on a loophole. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/117 "2008-09-21T15:22:02Z")
I don’t think this has been posted in this thread; it’s the reaction of the SEC chairman to McCain’s comments: [Associated Press story](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26776209/) (…) In a statement, Cox chalked up McCain’s comments to the heat of the campaign. Cox said the financial crisis was “presenting new challenges on an hourly basis” and that “steadiness and reduction of uncertainty” is what the U.S. and the world needed. “History will judge the quality of our response to this economic crisis, but now is not the time for those of us in the trenches to be distracted by the ebb and flow of the current election campaign,” Cox said. “And it is precisely the wrong moment for a change in leadership.” Cox said he’s always been clear about his intent to leave the SEC when the Bush administration ends in January 2009. Cox’s term officially ends in June 2009, but he could stay on until a successor is named. Regardless of how you might parse “lie” this does sound like another example of “McCain the Hot Head.” Firing the SEC chairman during a Wall Street meltdown would be a symbolic gesture that would likely contribute to the general panic. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/118 "2008-09-21T17:00:23Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > In a statement, Cox chalked up McCain’s comments to the heat of the campaign. […]“steadiness and reduction of uncertainty” is what the U.S. and the world needed. And yet he’s _supporting_ McCain. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/119 "2008-09-21T17:47:41Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Ah, you’re “fairly certain,” but not _absolutely_ certain. In the end, your craven intellectual honesty betrays you. You might make a prudent intelligence agent, but the President of the United States can’t allow himself to be straitjacketed by intelligence. Next time pick an answer, and just _stop doubting it._ It’s that simple. Actually, this being the SDMB, I figured that **Stranger on a Train** would be along to provide exact figures soon after. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405/120 "2008-09-21T17:58:38Z")
So this is the origin of the [Lie](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=484240) thread in GD! Actually, I don’t think this one was a lie from the McCain camp at all. They knew their boy had completely screwed up, and were trying to anticipate why they expected Obama to say. They probably did hear from someone that Obama was going to say something like they said, and possibly Obama considered it. Or Obama may well have misinformation ops; I wouldn’t put it past him at all - he’s a very smart man, and he attracts very smart people to work for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-mccain-doctrine-preemptive-lying/464405.md?page=7)