# New movie "Vaxxed" reopens discussion about the link between autism and vaccines **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420 "2016-06-15T13:49:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/301 "2016-06-23T17:50:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh, I dont know. You didnt change my mind and I didnt change yours. > > I succeeded in publicizing the movie and the ideas it brings up. > > So frankly I won. Are you under the impression that any sane person, after reading the information in this thread, will think, “gee, that sounds like a thoughtful movie that brings up interesting ideas – I must go see it”? ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/302 "2016-06-23T17:59:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Are you under the impression that any sane person, after reading the information in this thread, will think, “gee, that sounds like a thoughtful movie that brings up interesting ideas – I must go see it”? It seems to be that you are making the so far entirely unjustified assumption that **Urbanredneck** is privy to the workings of a sane mind. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/303 "2016-06-23T17:59:19Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > All I’m saying is there is a movie out which will soon by coming to your community. If you want to ask “experts” who can answer your questions I’d suggest showing up for the Q and A and talking to Wakefield and the others yourself…I succeeded in publicizing the movie and the ideas it brings up. If you think that you’ve convinced anyone here to pay to see a movie whose premise [has been roundly debunked](http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp), produced by 1) a disgraced ex-researcher who lost his medical license and [has been reduced to the role of a cruise ship entertainer for loons](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/02/26/the-woo-boat-part-2-andrew-wakefield-versus-the-skeptics/), and 2) a guy [who thinks parents whose child died of neglect are “wonderful”](http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2016/06/vaxxed-supports-medical-neglect.html), you are demented. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/304 "2016-06-23T18:05:33Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > If you want to ask “experts” who can answer your questions I’d suggest showing up for the Q and A and talking to Wakefield and the others yourself. You’re seriously calling Wakefield an expert? You’ve read none of this six+ page thread, have you? Time and again, you’ve been provided links and information to show your stance is at best ignorant and at worst extremely dangerous. You’ve chosen to stick your fingers in your ears while trilling, “LALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU.” Thank you, **Urbanredneck** , for giving me an insight into the mind of the terminally deluded. There’s a thread in MPSIMS right now about a baby in the hospital for at least the next two months for whooping cough because she was too young to be vaccinated. Herd immunity could have kept her healthy. Chew on that, numbskull. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/305 "2016-06-23T18:32:34Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You know I try but dang you people expect some sort of college level term paper answer with all kinds of references and you know what, I’m just some guy on the web sharing an opinion. I’m not a scientist or doctor and I’m not about to do tons of research on this. All I’m saying is there is a movie out which will soon by coming to your community. If you want to ask “experts” who can answer your questions I’d suggest showing up for the Q and A and talking to Wakefield and the others yourself. Not going to bother to ask questions to fringe followers that are only experts of misleading people. The experts you are looking at are indeed only a fringe of the overwhelming number of scientists, experts and doctors that report that there is no connection between autism and vaccines. [http://www.csicop.org/si/show/anti-vaccination\_movement](http://www.csicop.org/si/show/anti-vaccination_movement) > [@](#): > > Vaccines are one of the most successful programs in modern health care, reducing, and in some cases even eliminating, serious infectious diseases. Public support for the vaccination program remains strong, especially in the United States where vaccination rates are currently at an all-time high of \>95 percent (CDC 2004). Yet, despite a long history of safety and effectiveness, vaccines have always had their critics: some parents and a tiny fringe of doctors question whether vaccinating children is worth what they perceive as the risks. In recent years, the anti-vaccination movement, largely based on poor science and fear-mongering, has become more vocal and even hostile (Hughes 2007). > [@](#): > > If Wakefield had simply been wrong in his preliminary findings, he would be innocent of any wrongdoing—scientists are not faulted if their early findings are not later vindicated. However, in May 2004, ten of Wakefield’s co-authors on his original paper withdrew their support for its conclusions. The editors of Lancet also announced that they withdrew their endorsement of the paper and cited as part of the reason an undisclosed potential conflict of interest for Wakefield, namely that at the time of its publication he was conducting research for a group of parents of autistic children seeking to sue for damages from MMR vaccine producers (Lancet 2004). > > It gets worse. Investigative reporter Brian Deer has uncovered greater depths to Wakefield’s apparent malfeasance. Wakefield had applied for patents for an MMR vaccine substitute and treatments for his alleged MMR vaccine-induced gut disorder (Deer 2007). So, not only was he allegedly paid by lawyers to cast doubt on the MMR vaccine, but he stood to personally gain from the outcome of his research. > > Further, during the Cedillo case testimony, Stephen Bustin, a world expert in the polymerase chain reaction (PCR), testified that the lab Wakefield used to obtain the results for his original paper was contaminated with measles virus RNA. It was therefore likely, Bustin implied, that the PCR used by Wakefield was detecting this contamination and not evidence for measles infection in the guts of children with autism who had been vaccinated, as Wakefield claimed. And finally, Nicholas Chadwick testified that the measles RNA Wakefield found matched the laboratory contamination and did not match either any naturally occurring strain or the strain used in the MMR vaccine—a fact of which he had informed Wakefield (USCFC 2007). > > All of this, plus other allegations still coming out, has caused Britain’s General Medical Council to call Wakefield before its “Fitness to Practise” panel for review of his alleged professional misconduct (GMC 2007). So yes, you are not a doctor or an expert, you cannot do research, but so are many others in this world and were science is concerned we have to consult and listen to what the vast majority on what they currently do agree; because that is their job. To be doctors and experts that advise society on the best solutions to an issue. (And “It works, bitches” - Dawkins) Denying what the vast majority of experts and doctors are telling us is just idiocy and it is irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/306 "2016-06-23T18:35:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You know I try but dang you people expect some sort of college level term paper answer with all kinds of references and you know what, I’m just some guy on the web sharing an opinion. I’m not a scientist or doctor and I’m not about to do tons of research on this. No, we don’t. We’ve supplied the references, we expect you to read and think about what we’ve told you. > [@](#): > > All I’m saying is there is a movie out which will soon by coming to your community. If you want to ask “experts” who can answer your questions I’d suggest showing up for the Q and A and talking to Wakefield and the others yourself. This is what happened here in Kansas City where he took the time to answer questions from protesters outside the theater and members of the medical community inside. No, that’s not all you’re saying. You’re also saying that you’ve been convinced by the movie that there are problems with this and problems with that. Every single point you’ve brought up has been answered solidly with a refutation. If you’re too dumb to understand those refutations, then you’re too dumb to make a judgement on the quality of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/307 "2016-06-23T18:42:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > All I’m saying is there is a movie out which will soon by coming to your community. I’d rather have my nipples chewed of by rabid raccoons. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/308 "2016-06-23T18:46:58Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I’d rather have my nipples chewed of by rabid raccoons. Make sure you have the appropriate vaccine first, though. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/309 "2016-06-23T18:49:07Z")
I don’t know. I wouldn’t want to catch The Autism. Perhaps a mustard bath and walking through a field of lavender would do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/310 "2016-06-23T20:23:29Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You know I try but dang you people expect some sort of college level term paper answer with all kinds of references No, we don’t. What we expect is, to make a fucking case. For you to have evidence that isn’t peeled directly from the trash heap you live in (the one next to the perpetual tire fire and behind the secret government project to develop a form of radiation that makes people retarded), actually spend a moment engaging the numerous rational, intelligent, _way fucking smarter than you_ people in this thread who have told you that you are in no uncertain terms wrong, or barring all of that to just shut up and piss off. And yes, by the way, when talking about medical science, the currency of argumentation is science papers, and a basic literacy in medical science is to be expected. Why the fuck is this some kind of shocker to you? Do you think your stupid fucking opinion is somehow equivalent to the actual research of the countless scientists who’ve spent their entire lives studying this shit? You think your “feeling” that your kid got autism because of vaccines is as good as that research? You’re like the fucking young earth creationist saying, “Hey guys, check out this Kent Hovind video” who then complains that people expect him to actually know what an isotope is! At this point I’m wondering if it’s not more likely that the reason your child got autism is because you’re just a fucking idiot! Yeah, there’s no link between being a complete fucking retard and having autistic children, but there’s a flimsy correlation, and when it came to vaccines, that was apparently good enough for you! > [@](#): > > and you know what, I’m just some guy on the web sharing an opinion. An opinion is something like, “I find X to have subjective quality Y”. You like the color red? That’s an opinion. You think the earth is flat? That’s _not_ an opinion, that is a statement of fact. Your favorite thing to lick is windows? That’s an opinion. You think vaccines cause autism? That’s _not_ an opinion, that’s a statement of fact. God, you can’t even get this simple fucking distinction right. > [@](#): > > I’m not a scientist or doctor and I’m not about to do tons of research on this. Oh, you mean you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about? Then shut the fuck up and _listen_ to any one of the at this point probably 30+ people in this thread who _have_ spent a bare minimum of time researching this to come to an informed opinion! Every single person - EVERY LAST PERSON IN THIS FUCKING THREAD - has told you that you’re wrong. And now that it’s in the pit, most of them are telling you what a fucking _retard_ you are. Because this kind of wilful, harmful ignorance is just inexcusable. Fuck off with that noise, you inbred shithead. Go cook up another portion of paint chips or something - at least then, all you’re hurting is yourself. > [@](#): > > If you want to ask “experts” who can answer your questions I’d suggest showing up for the Q and A and talking to Wakefield and the others yourself. Why should anyone ask Wakefield anything other than, “When the fuck are you going to kill yourself already, you disgusting waste of human flesh?” He’s not an expert. He’s a _fraud_. And if you had paid attention to any number of the people and possibly _dogs_ posting in this thread who have shown themselves to be more intelligent than you, you would know that already. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/311 "2016-06-23T20:43:34Z")
_Willfully_ spreading lies and ignorance, as **Urbanredneck** is doing, isn’t just stupid or foolish, it’s evil… **Urbanredneck** does not deserve to be posting here against the health of the human race. He’s a radical _medical_ terrorist, as some fanatics are radical \*religious \*terrorists… If even one person rails to vaccinate their kid based on his evil speech, and the kid gets sick, it’s on **Urbanredneck** ’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/312 "2016-06-23T21:54:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The only question I have that Wakefield is qualified to answer is “At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” Do you really think this man would come to our city and calmly answer any and all questions posed by people if he was just a fraud or someone out to earn a buck? Here is a [link where Wakefield answers many of the allegations leveled against him.](http://vaxxedthemovie.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-deals-with-allegations/) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/313 "2016-06-23T22:00:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do you really think this man would come to our city and calmly answer any and all questions posed by people if he was just a fraud or someone out to earn a buck? > > Here is a [link where Wakefield answers many of the allegations leveled against him.](http://vaxxedthemovie.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-deals-with-allegations/) Yes BECAUSE HE IS A FRAUD LOOKING TO MAKE A BUCK! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/314 "2016-06-23T22:29:38Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do you really think this man would come to our city and calmly answer any and all questions posed by people if he was just a fraud or someone out to earn a buck? > > Here is a [link where Wakefield answers many of the allegations leveled against him.](http://vaxxedthemovie.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-deals-with-allegations/) Oh, yeah, con artist do it all the time. Though I sometimes think Wakefield may have crossed over in to the delusional side of things. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/315 "2016-06-23T22:36:42Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do you really think this man would come to our city and calmly answer any and all questions posed by people if he was just a fraud or someone out to earn a buck? > > Here is a [link where Wakefield answers many of the allegations leveled against him.](http://vaxxedthemovie.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-deals-with-allegations/) Hey, you _ **useless** _ idiot. I already did link to evidence that showed that Dr Wakefield remains wrong regarding his age of exposure theory. Nonsense like this one is what happens when you do not read what was posted before. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/316 "2016-06-23T22:42:55Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh, I dont know. You didnt change my mind and I didnt change yours. > > I succeeded in publicizing the movie and the ideas it brings up. > > So frankly I won. Yep, you’re a “winner.” You have demonstrated that you are gullible and easily led, and equally eager to spread medical misinformation that could hurt innocent people.you have shown you have no desire to learn anything, preferring to repeat lies and then shrug and say I’m no expert and I won’t listen to the actual experts. So yep you’re a “winner.” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/317 "2016-06-23T23:34:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do you really think this man would come to our city and calmly answer any and all questions posed by people if he was just a fraud or someone out to earn a buck? > > Here is a [link where Wakefield answers many of the allegations leveled against him.](http://vaxxedthemovie.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-deals-with-allegations/) Did you catch James Van Praagh when he came to town to help the people talk their Dearly Departeds? ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/318 "2016-06-24T00:31:34Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh, I dont know. You didnt change my mind and I didnt change yours. > > I succeeded in publicizing the movie and the ideas it brings up. > > So frankly I won. Jesus fuck but you’re a stupid man. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/319 "2016-06-24T00:43:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Oh, I dont know. You didnt change my mind and I didnt change yours. > > I succeeded in publicizing the movie and the ideas it brings up. > > So frankly I won. Yeah, you’d rather crouch at your PC, spreading lies, than spend time with your kid. Don’t you know that early intervention can really help kids on the autistic spectrum? But it requires time & effort–in finding reputable professionals & helping them at home. I hope your wife is involved–since you obviously don’t care about your child. Who was born less “perfect” than you… You’re a loser. And the entire world knows that Wakefield is a quack. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420/320 "2016-06-24T02:04:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do you really think this man would come to our city and calmly answer any and all questions posed by people if he was just a fraud or someone out to earn a buck? In that case, I will be in town next week selling farmland in Florida. On my word as a man of honor, I promise to calmly answer any and all questions posed by people. Act now, and as a one time special offer, provided you agree to spread the word to family and friends over the internet, I will also throw in a bridge in Brooklyn for free. (shipping and handling charges do apply) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-movie-vaxxed-reopens-discussion-about-the-link-between-autism-and-vaccines/757420.md?page=17)