# New NFL playoff overtime rules **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535 "2010-03-23T21:16:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/61 "2010-03-24T20:00:07Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Ties suck and generally have no place in civilized society. But at least the new series of Futurama won’t get screwed over 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/62 "2010-03-24T20:07:10Z")
I like the rule change more than anything that has been suggested here. A full overtime period just isn’t realistic. The players, teams, and networks would all be united against it. Changing the field position might make things a little fairer, but wouldn’t solve the settling for field goals issue. Teams would still have incentive to go for a touchdown resulting in conservative, boring play. I personally would have gone with first to get 4 (not win by 4 as that would take too long), but this is close enough that I’m happy ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/63 "2010-03-24T20:08:40Z")
They could go the NHL route and play 9-on-9 in overtime. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/64 "2010-03-24T21:40:46Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Basically, the first team to play offense has to go the length of the field to win, but if it fails to score, then the other team only has to get within FG range to win. Put another way, if the first team has the ball on the opponent’s 25 and it’s fourth down, it can’t kick for the win, but if the second team is in that situation (and the first team has not scored), it can. That’s a good point. First-to-four would be better. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/65 "2010-03-24T22:31:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Basically, the first team to play offense has to go the length of the field to win, but if it fails to score, then the other team only has to get within FG range to win. Put another way, if the first team has the ball on the opponent’s 25 and it’s fourth down, it can’t kick for the win, but if the second team is in that situation (and the first team has not scored), it can. Sort of. The second team has to, first, prevent the other team from scoring at all in order to win under the circumstances you laid out. That is not a trivial accomplishment. If a team can shut out the other team’s offense, then march down the field and kick a field goal, I am fine with them winning the game. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/66 "2010-03-25T21:28:24Z")
How about this: First team gets stopped at midfield and punts. The second team’s receiver misjudges and lets the ball bounce off him. that’s a live ball, and the first team falls on it in the end zone for a TD. Is that a completed win, under these rules? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/67 "2010-03-25T21:48:35Z")
I believe a muffed punt or kick counts as an opportunity for a possession, so that would be a win. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/68 "2010-03-25T22:10:01Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I believe a muffed punt or kick counts as an opportunity for a possession, so that would be a win. Opportunity for possession doesn’t even have to play into it. Under the rules, the first team to score a touchdown wins. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/69 "2010-03-25T22:43:16Z")
The whole idea of “opportunity for a possession” is stupid. How exciting was the Cardinals playoff win in OT last year? Well, now you’ll have half the audience turning to the other half and saying, “Did we win? I think we did… yeah, I’m sure we did…probably.” And how about this? Assume Team A got the ball first and kicked a FG. They’ve now created a situation where the best thing for Team A to do is try an onside kick… with the lead, in overtime. Why, you ask? **OPTION 1** Kick off deep. Team B returns the ball, on average, to the 25 yard line. This leaves them 40 yards from field goal range, but also puts them in the enviable position of knowing in advance that they will go for it on all 4th downs until they’re in FG territory. Much easier to move the ball when you know on 1st down that you’ll go for it on 4th. Plus, Team B could have had a much better return than to the 25. **OPTION 2** Onside kick. If Team A recovers, they win. If Team B recovers, they’re on about the Team A 45 yard line - still not in FG range. Close enough, however, that they will try a FG on anything inside the 35 or so, meaning that they will NOT be going for it on 4th down. As long as you don’t give up a TD, Team B has to attempt a FG just to tie - if they miss, Team A still wins. If they make it, then Team A is about to get the ball back, now in sudden death, thereby having all the advantages of receiving the ball first that the NFL apparently doesn’t want them to have anymore. So if you kick off deep with a 3 point lead, you give the other team a chance to return for a TD and beat you, return it to about midfield (in which case they’re exactly where they would have been if you had lost an onside kick), or have 1st and 10 around their own 25 or so with 4 downs to get a first every time instead of 3. If you onside kick and lose it, you’re only giving up (probably) 40 yards of field position, but Team B is likely just going to attempt a FG to tie you anyway. And if you simply recover the onside kick - you win. Who doesn’t want to see a playoff game end with a team kicking a FG, then recovering an onside kick for the victory? What an exciting way to end a playoff game. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/70 "2010-03-25T22:56:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Opportunity for possession doesn’t even have to play into it. Under the rules, the first team to score a touchdown wins. Ah yes. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/71 "2010-03-26T00:14:12Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Thread title changed per OP’s request. What was the former title? ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/72 "2010-03-26T01:25:43Z")
I had omitted the bolded part, “NFL” such that it was unclear who’s overtime playoff rules had changed. Thanks for the fix, **Ellen**! ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/73 "2010-03-26T22:29:54Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > And how about this? Assume Team A got the ball first and kicked a FG. They’ve now created a situation where the best thing for Team A to do is try an onside kick… with the lead, in overtime. Why, you ask? How is this different than a team kicking a field goal to take a 3 point lead with under 3 minutes left to play? Do teams regularly do onside kicks in those situations? I’ve seen them often do “squib” kicks, not often onside kicks. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/74 "2010-03-27T15:35:58Z")
I used to think that the NFL rules were decided by thoughtful people who were well-versed in the game of football. Sucks to have your illusions shattered. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/75 "2010-03-29T05:18:57Z")
I’d still like to see the second team get a chance even if the first team gets a touchdown… Don’T score or gets TD and fails PAT = loss TD + PAT = suddendeath TD + 2 point conversion = win ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/76 "2010-03-29T06:25:39Z")
That’s just silly. It’s as if you think the only thing that matters is offense. Your suggestion would be good for Arena Football, but has no place in the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/77 "2010-03-29T20:24:44Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > So if you kick off deep with a 3 point lead, you give the other team a chance to return for a TD and beat you, return it to about midfield (in which case they’re exactly where they would have been if you had lost an onside kick), or have 1st and 10 around their own 25 or so with 4 downs to get a first every time instead of 3. If you onside kick and lose it, you’re only giving up (probably) 40 yards of field position, but Team B is likely just going to attempt a FG to tie you anyway. And if you simply recover the onside kick - you win. I don’t agree at all. The only difference is that an onside kick leaves them on the 40 while the deep kick leaves them on the 25, from where they’ll try to get to the 40 (and beyond). Once the team is on the 40, the rest of the game is identical in both scenarios. The only question, then, is “What is the best way to keep them off the 40?” You’ve got two choices: Recover the kick, or halt their drive from the 25. I think the second option is much, much more likely. In order to demonstrate this, you don’t even need to factor in overtime. This decision is the same from the opening kickoff of the 1st quarter to the final whistle. If it were easier to prevent scoring by kicking onside, then you’d see that more often. But the truth is that the easiest way to keep the opponent off your 40-yard line is to kick it deep. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/78 "2010-03-30T11:54:35Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > In order to demonstrate this, you don’t even need to factor in overtime. This decision is the same from the opening kickoff of the 1st quarter to the final whistle. If it were easier to prevent scoring by kicking onside, then you’d see that more often. But the truth is that the easiest way to keep the opponent off your 40-yard line is to kick it deep. I agree with you, but I suspect this argument falls on deaf ears to the camp that doesn’t like sudden death overtime. In their mind, every drive is practically a guaranteed field goal, despite the fact that most NFL drives don’t generate any points at all. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535/79 "2010-03-30T14:01:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > In order to demonstrate this, you don’t even need to factor in overtime. This decision is the same from the opening kickoff of the 1st quarter to the final whistle. If it were easier to prevent scoring by kicking onside, then you’d see that more often. But the truth is that the easiest way to keep the opponent off your 40-yard line is to kick it deep. I agree with your overall point, but it isn’t quite true that the decision is the same as a normal kickoff. The opponent in this situation will never punt, so they will use all four downs to try to advance the ball. This makes it more likely than usual that they will make it to the 40. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-nfl-playoff-overtime-rules/533535.md?page=3)