# New OBL tape...Change your mind? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428 "2003-02-11T21:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/1 "2003-02-11T21:11:18Z")
There is an apparent new tape from our old friend Osamma bin Laden. If he admits an alliance with Iraq, would that make you more likely to support a US led attack on Saddam? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/2 "2003-02-11T21:18:38Z")
He claimed solidarity with the Iraqi _people_, while calling on them to _oust_ Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/3 "2003-02-11T21:19:23Z")
Christ. You sound like the newscasters on Fox News. Osama basically says he wishes the best of luck to Iraq and asks anyone who can support the war effort to do so. This isn’t a surprise. Osama Bin Laden isn’t our biggest fan. He’s especially not a huge fan when we attack Arab countries. That’d he’d publically encourage Iraq to resist us is not in the least surprising. Can someone tell me HOW the hell this points to some Iraq-Al Queda alliance? Are we supposed to believe that they’ve been collaborating all along because Osama wishes someone good luck in fighting us? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/4 "2003-02-11T21:26:44Z")
I mean, just look at this rationally. We are supposed to believe that Osama wishes Iraq to resist because he’s: A) Hateful towards the United States B) Wants to inflict harm on us C) Wishes anyone who he sees as our victims to resist D) Especially sees this as US attacks on a part of the Muslim world or E) He’s been plotting with Saddam all along to develop toddler killing strains of nuclear anthrax ? Sure, all 5 are a possibility, but people seem to be saying that now that he called on the Iraqi people to resist us, that it MUST be E. As if A-D weren’t real reasons he’d behave the way he did. It MUST be some secret, nefarious alliance. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/5 "2003-02-11T21:32:08Z")
**Elvis** pretty much nailed to a wall and stuck a fork in it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/6 "2003-02-11T21:36:56Z")
The government and media are so desperate to grasp at straws to find some sort of Al Queda-Iraq link that they’re manufacturing one out of nothing. Osama would’ve said the same thing to any country that the US “picks on” - especially any other muslim country. But the media (even my friend said NPR basically said there was an alliance) is stretching all logic to insist that, in this case, for some reason, since Osama encouraged resistance to the US, it must mean there’s some nefarious alliance. This is just blatant propoganda. Usually they’re more subtle - this is just in your face, illogical, unsubtle propoganda. We might as well make ww2 style propoganda posters. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/7 "2003-02-11T21:39:19Z")
As an enemy of humanity, a rabid pinko, a suspected philatelist, and a probable kicker of nuns and puppies, I would like to express my solidarity with **newcrasher** , and wish him the best of luck in this thread. We stand together in this matter. See how it works? It’s the old ‘let’s you and him fight’ tactic. I haven’t fallen for that one since grade school, and it was embarrassing then. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/8 "2003-02-11T21:40:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*He claimed solidarity with the Iraqi _people_, while calling on them to _oust_ Saddam. \*\* This is not known for sure. Something happened with **Beagle** ’s link in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/9 "2003-02-11T21:40:27Z")
_If_ it’s him, and the mofo is still alive, then he’s just pulled the chain on his Iraqi ‘brothers’. The fact that he even mentioned them gives credence to allegations of collusion. What a dickwad. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/10 "2003-02-11T21:41:08Z")
Excuse the multiple posts, I’m just exasperated with the media response to this. You’d think Osama said “Yeah, I met with Saddam last weekend, and he personally handed over vials of anthrax” or something, when he just said something perfectly ordinary, that doesn’t even remotely suggest some sort of special link with Iraq - unless I’m missing something from the speech. It’s just… frustrating. You look back at 1930s and 1940s style propoganda posters, and they strike us as ridiculous. You think “How could people have possibly been influenced by that? Ridiculous. Do these people think for themselves at all?” And here I am, witnessesing the same damn thing, and everyone seems to be “falling for it” as much as anyone fell for any simplistic propoganda poster. And there’s nothing I can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/11 "2003-02-11T21:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*This is not known for sure. Something happened with **Beagle** ’s link in the other thread. \*\* I just heard them say the same thing on CNBC - expresses solidarity with the Muslim people and calls for the ouster of Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/12 "2003-02-11T21:45:52Z")
— Osama would’ve said the same thing to any country that the US “picks on”— And did. Re: Somalia Of course, he ALSO claimed to have sent Al Queda soldiers to fight the U.S. there. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/13 "2003-02-11T21:50:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*I just heard them say the same thing on CNBC - expresses solidarity with the Muslim people and calls for the ouster of Saddam. \*\* OK. Not saying it’s BS, but what the heck happened with the MSNBC article from Beagle’s post? Here’s betting you won’t hear much more about Osama wanting Hussein gone. Feel lucky you heard it when you did. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/14 "2003-02-11T21:58:10Z")
Agreed, **Bordelond** Our system is even faster than pneumatic tubes built into the walls that carry messages off to the incinerator. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/15 "2003-02-11T21:58:36Z")
[We have corroboration.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2978522#post2978522) The speaker on the tape, in fact, does not favor Hussein. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/16 "2003-02-11T22:01:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > \*\*Agreed, **Bordelond** > > Our system is even faster than pneumatic tubes built into the walls that carry messages off to the incinerator. \*\* Ah … we spoke too soon! Osama-hates-Saddam is spreading across the Web. MSNBC can’t put the lid back on now. Boy, some translator/stringer/cub reporter somewhere is cleaning his or her desk out right about now. … of course, there is the possibility that the speaker on the tape is throwing out a red herring. Should this tape be regarded as authoritative? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/17 "2003-02-11T22:06:43Z")
No, but… the fact that it was initially trumpeted as a “See! A link!” sort of deal from the very start should tell us something. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/18 "2003-02-11T22:29:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > **Ah … we spoke too soon! Osama-hates-Saddam is spreading across the Web. MSNBC can’t put the lid back on now.** Now it has a new twist, though. From [News.com.au](http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5973640%255E1702,00.html) in Australia: > [@](#): > > In the tape, the voice calls for Muslims to rise up to defend Iraq in the event of a US-led war, saying it is okay for them to fight alongside Saddam Hussein’s ruling Baath party, a secular and socialist group generally not supported by strict Islamists. ---
**Author:** ![Scruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Scruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruff)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/19 "2003-02-11T22:36:58Z")
[Here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2709233.stm) is a page on the bbc news site discussing the alleged connections between Osama Bin Laden and Iraq, and specifically the Iraqi government. Interesting reading. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428/20 "2003-02-12T00:09:21Z")
Here’s an idea: let’s blow Saddam to smithereens, then invite Osama to join the reconstruction effort. When he shows up, slap the cuffs on him! (Or shoot him in the brain. Whatever.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-obl-tape-change-your-mind/154428.md?page=2)