# New Oklahoma Abortion Bill hands over final say to males **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456 "2017-02-10T12:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/1 "2017-02-10T12:44:40Z")
As described [here](http://www.self.com/story/oklahoma-consent-law), > [@](#): > > A new Oklahoma abortion bill would prevent women from having abortions unless they’ve received written permission from the man who impregnated them. The bill, House Bill 1441, was recently proposed by Oklahoma representative Justin Humphrey. > > HB1441 states that no abortion can be legally performed in the state without “written informed consent [from] the father of the fetus.” The bill would also require a pregnant woman to identify the man who impregnated her in writing so that he can give or deny permission for the abortion—or challenge the fact that he’s the father at all (in which case he would demand a paternity test). Link to PDF copy of bill Link to PDF copy of bill [here](http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2017-18%20INT/hB/HB1441%20INT.PDF). Not only is this law sexist to the extreme, it is unconstitutional. > [@](#): > > Not to mention, the United States Supreme Court has ruled that requiring this kind of partner consent for abortions is unconstitutional. In the 1976 case Planned Parenthood of Central Missouri v. Danforth, the court struck down legislation that required a pregnant woman to get permission to have an abortion from her spouse (or her parents, if she were a minor). The court struck down similar spousal notice requirements in 1992’s Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/2 "2017-02-10T12:48:59Z")
Terrible bill. If it passes, Oklahoma pro-choice men should start an all-volunteer organization – “pro-choice men in Oklahoma – we support all women’s rights to choose… contact us here and one of our volunteers will get back to you to support you _in any way possible_”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/3 "2017-02-10T12:51:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Terrible bill. > > If it passes, Oklahoma pro-choice men should start an all-volunteer organization – “pro-choice men in Oklahoma – we support all women’s rights to choose… contact us here and one of our volunteers will get back to you to support you _in any way possible_”. What is it you are suggesting they could do? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/4 "2017-02-10T12:58:10Z")
What “partner consent”? The law assumes the man is available. If it was a fling or a rape, you’re SOL. If the guy refuses to admit paternity, you’re SOL (it’s not as if they can run paternity tests on a weeks-old fetus). If he’s, dunnow, just been shipped off to Irak, you’re SOL. Maybe I’m PMSing, but today there seems to be a lot of people begging to get aborted post-birth :mad: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/5 "2017-02-10T13:00:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is it you are suggesting they could do? Say that they’re the father and give consent to any woman who asks. It would only need a few guys, spread out throughout the state, ready to sign permission forms. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/6 "2017-02-10T13:02:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is it you are suggesting they could do? "Did I impregnate you? I dunno, sure. To paraphrase Michael Flynn (admittedly he was talking about illegal communications with Russia, a less terrible thing), “while I have no recollection of impregnating you, I can’t be certain that the subject never came up.” So sure, go ahead and put my name on that form. I’ll sign your permission slip! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/7 "2017-02-10T13:04:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is it you are suggesting they could do? “I’m [del]Spartacus[/del] the father.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/8 "2017-02-10T13:07:16Z")
I thought my proposal made it obvious… did I not italicize the right words? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/9 "2017-02-10T13:08:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Say that they’re the father and give consent to any woman who asks. It would only need a few guys, spread out throughout the state, ready to sign permission forms. _Brilliant_ idea! The concerned male signs such a thing, committing fraud, and what happens if… 1. The abortion request is denied anyway, or 2. The actual person who impregnated her steps forward to challenge it? Congratulations-Now two people are in trouble with the law, and the abortion is denied anyway. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/10 "2017-02-10T13:15:51Z")
It’s stupid and unworkable. And immoral. But, “sexist”? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/11 "2017-02-10T13:19:05Z")
Yes, in that it puts the woman under the automatic authority of a man. This is compounded by the fact that the man may not even be her partner. It can be a one-night stand, it can be her ex, it can even be her rapist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/12 "2017-02-10T13:34:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Say that they’re the father and give consent to any woman who asks. It would only need a few guys, spread out throughout the state, ready to sign permission forms. Isn’t it the case that in some states the woman’s husband is assumed to be the father? So, this would not work for married women. And it would be easy to prove that the man was not the father, and open these men up to serious criminal prosecution. Cute idea, but wouldn’t work. But it doesn’t matter, really. The law is not constitutional anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/13 "2017-02-10T13:37:41Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > … it can even be her rapist. No. From the OP’s link: > [@](#): > > Women who have become pregnant as a result of rape or incest would be excused from this rule. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/14 "2017-02-10T13:38:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And it would be easy to prove that the man was not the father, and open these men up to serious criminal prosecution. Cute idea, but wouldn’t work. “Easy”? In what sense? How are you thinking this proof would occur? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/15 "2017-02-10T13:43:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Easy”? In what sense? How are you thinking this proof would occur? Genetic testing after the abortion. If a program such as **iianyiiii** proposed was actually implemented, surely the legislature would take action to counter it. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/16 "2017-02-10T13:45:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. From the OP’s link: More details please. Does this means all the woman has to do is say “I was raped” and thus nullify the law, or there has to be an accusation of rape and police report? Or does it mean that there has to be a conviction for rape, you know when the fetus is two years old? ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/17 "2017-02-10T13:49:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Genetic testing after the abortion. If a program such as **iianyiiii** proposed was actually implemented, surely the legislature would take action to counter it. Sorry for jumping on you twice, but what about if the man only thinks he might be the father? Will there be prosecutions for perjury? Yes, this is sexist, backward, stupid, and (if you will excuse it) ill conceived. It is meant to punish women for doing what men do freely and with out consequence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/18 "2017-02-10T13:54:35Z")
> [@howye](#): > > More details please. Does this means all the woman has to do is say “I was raped” and thus nullify the law, or there has to be an accusation of rape and police report? Or does it mean that there has to be a conviction for rape, you know when the fetus is two years old? It’s not my proposed bill. The OP has a link to the full bill if you want to read it for details. > [@howye](#): > > Sorry for jumping on you twice, but what about if the man only thinks he might be the father? Will there be prosecutions for perjury? > > Yes, this is sexist, backward, stupid, and (if you will excuse it) ill conceived. It is meant to punish women for doing what men do freely and with out consequence. The point I was trying to make is that if this bill were to become law and some group thinks they could come up with a clever way to game the system, then the legislature will almost certainly propose laws to deter that action. that is all. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/19 "2017-02-10T13:59:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Genetic testing after the abortion. If a program such as **iianyiiii** proposed was actually implemented, surely the legislature would take action to counter it. “Gosh, like I said, I couldn’t quite remember. I’m kind of a player.” I think you’re vastly overestimating the ease of convicting in such a case (which is obviously a fantasy case, since this bill is obviously unconstitutional, but since we’re in this weird hypothetical anyway) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/20 "2017-02-10T14:00:02Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yes, in that it puts the woman under the automatic authority of a man. > > This is compounded by the fact that the man may not even be her partner. It can be a one-night stand, it can be her ex, it can even be her rapist. So, child support is sexist since it makes a man surrender his property to something that only exists due to the whims of a woman? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456.md?page=2)