# New Oklahoma Abortion Bill hands over final say to males **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456 "2017-02-10T12:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/21 "2017-02-10T14:07:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Brilliant_ idea! The concerned male signs such a thing, committing fraud, and what happens if… > > 1. The abortion request is denied anyway, or > 2. The actual person who impregnated her steps forward to challenge it? > > Congratulations-Now two people are in trouble with the law, and the abortion is denied anyway. There would be slight risk (which I think would be worth it on principle), but I think you’re being incredibly hyperbolic – such fraud would be very, very difficult to prove, even if the actual father came forward. **John Mace** suggests the legislature would try to counter, which is very possible, but so what? Does that mean that (in the off chance this bill becomes law) progressives shouldn’t try to bypass it? I’m not suggesting that my solution is fool proof – merely that it’s a place to start resisting such immoral legislation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/22 "2017-02-10T14:23:02Z")
“Well, I can’t be certain _who_ the father is, but I’ve made you a list of possibilities. You’ll note I’ve gone to the trouble of alphabetizing it to help you out.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/23 "2017-02-10T14:39:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So, child support is sexist since it makes a man surrender his property to something that only exists due to the whims of a woman? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/24 "2017-02-10T14:51:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nope. Agreed. It’s stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/25 "2017-02-10T14:53:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Agreed. It’s stupidity. If you mean your analogy, absolutely. If you mean the thing you failed to analogize to, nope. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/26 "2017-02-10T15:11:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So, child support is sexist since it makes a man surrender his property to something that only exists due to the whims of a woman? Wait? Does sex only occur because of the “whim of a woman?” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/27 "2017-02-10T15:15:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But it doesn’t matter, really. The law is not constitutional anyway. For now. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/28 "2017-02-10T15:17:01Z")
The bill is stupid and immoral. Besides, even if it passed, how many men are out there that want the baby when the woman doesn’t? Not many, I would imagine. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/29 "2017-02-10T15:19:25Z")
Ridiculous. I suspect they’re hoping to get the law challenged all the way to the Supreme Court to force the new conservative majority (expecting a Gorsuch confirmation) to show their conservatism and use it to overturn Roe v Wade. Ain’t gonna happen, though. Conservative justices may not like it, but I highly doubt they’d consider overturning it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/30 "2017-02-10T15:23:32Z")
So, basically a new law that will actively encourage false rape accusations? Isn’t Oklahoma also a state with ‘for profit’ prisons? Because if you’re poor or brown, that could prove a life threatening combo, it seems to me. ( But maybe I’m being too suspicious.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/31 "2017-02-10T15:57:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > For now. That’s true of everything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/32 "2017-02-10T16:10:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s true of everything. Well, for now. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/33 "2017-02-10T16:52:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So, child support is sexist since it makes a man surrender his property to something that only exists due to the whims of a woman? It’s not about the baby. Once the baby exists, it’s its own person with its own rights. This is about the pregnancy. This is women have to have a man’s permission for a medical procedure. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/34 "2017-02-10T16:58:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, for now. No, for all eternity! ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/35 "2017-02-10T17:22:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s not about the baby. Once the baby exists, it’s its own person with its own rights. This is about the pregnancy. This is women have to have a man’s permission for a medical procedure. She had to have his permission to create it. How these things happen isn’t much of mystery. The burden of pregnancy lays with the woman to be sure, and I don’t believe she should be required to get anyone’s permission to abort or not. I will only say that I’ve personally know men who were devastated to learn an abortion was performed without their knowledge or consideration. But that’s a social issue ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/36 "2017-02-10T17:29:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So, child support is sexist since it makes a man surrender his property to something that only exists due to the whims of a woman? > [@K2500](#): > > She had to have his permission to create it. How these things happen isn’t much of mystery. > > The burden of pregnancy lays with the woman to be sure, and I don’t believe she should be required to get anyone’s permission to abort or not. I will only say that I’ve personally know men who were devastated to learn an abortion was performed without their knowledge or consideration. But that’s a social issue Sure. Like, if my son needed a kidney and I wouldn’t give him one, my husband would be devastated (and, of course, I WOULD give my son a kidney!). But he shouldn’t be allowed to compel me to submit to surgery to save the life of his child. ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/37 "2017-02-10T17:41:44Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Sure. Like, if my son needed a kidney and I wouldn’t give him one, my husband would be devastated (and, of course, I WOULD give my son a kidney!). But he shouldn’t be allowed to compel me to submit to surgery to save the life of his child. I agree. My point was it’s ultimately her body and as such her decision, but it’s also inherently and unavoidably sexist that the decision or permission to create must be mutual(lawfully), but the decision to terminate can only be made by the woman. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/38 "2017-02-10T17:49:44Z")
I wonder about the repercussions of all of those married men having affairs and getting their girlfriends pregnant. You know, the well to do, upstanding in the community and their churches, white, conservative _family values men_ who get caught … ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/39 "2017-02-10T17:51:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s true of everything. This substantially understates the threat to _Roe_. It is very much in the cross-hairs in a way that, say, _Miranda_ is not. ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456/40 "2017-02-10T18:08:24Z")
[quote=“llcoolbj77, post:26, topic:779456”] Wait? Does sex only occur because of the “whim of a woman?” :eek: [/QUOTE No, but abortion does. > [@Grrr](#): > > The bill is stupid and immoral. > > Besides, even if it passed, how many men are out there that want the baby when the woman doesn’t? > > Not many, I would imagine. I agree. Impeding on the rights of half the population to maintain the rights of the other half is stupid. Now, which half is which and where is the middle ground located? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-oklahoma-abortion-bill-hands-over-final-say-to-males/779456.md?page=3)