New Orleans

[TJdude825]

@Marley23

But you know what would happen if that proposal was enacted, right?

Um, huge riots and protests from every beach community in the country?

[UncleBeer]

Only if you extend that idea to those living along major faults, tornado alley, area fequently burned to a crisp by wildfires, along the Mississippi river flood plain and in and around the volcanoes in the NW. So… Where is it safe to build?

Don’t forget the shores of the Great Lakes, and their tributaries, too.

[NinetyWt]

@Theios

So… Where is it safe to build?

That was covered in this thread concerning the wisdom of living in SoCal. I’ll repeat my post from that thread:

Here’s an interesting map of Presidentially Declared Disaster Areas in the U.S. and Puerto Rico by county, for the years 1965 - 2003. Granted, that’s not even 40 years of data, but it is an interesting indication of risk.

Every area is subject to disaster, but some areas are at greater risk than others.

For example, according to FEMA:

In a high risk area, your home has a 26% chance of being damaged by a flood during the course of a 30-year mortgage, compared to a 9% chance of fire.

What that means is, if your home is located within a 100-year floodplain, then over the span of 30-years you have a 26% chance of experiencing a flood of that magnitude.

This page has some statistics about it.

[JohnBckWLD]

@NinetyWt

Nobody gives a damn…

$62,000,000,000.00 in Federal Appropriations thus far seems like an awful lot of ‘giving’ - damn.

[whole_bean]

@NinetyWt

If you will re-read my previous posts you will see that I am referring to the Mississippi Coast.

I’m very well aquainted with the geography of the area, including the Mississippi River, Lake Ponchartrain, and New Orleans, thankyouverymuch. I’ve only just lived right here next door all my life, have family living in New Orleans, and have been in floodplain analysis (as a Civil Engineer) for twenty years.

I have re-read your posts and I had to go back three posts from the one I replied to to see that you might have been talking about Mississippi.

I am not trying to be an ass, but it’s not clear at all from your post that you are referring to Mississippi. This is the post I was replying to

Absolutely. In a perfect world, people wouldn’t build in dangerous areas such as hurricane zones. I’d like to see the first mile inland become a park - a “no-build” zone. That would require people to make the same hard choice that The Long Road has made. It’s a tough call.

emphasis mine

The Long Road has made the choice to leave New Orleans (in fact he started a pit thread about it entitled “New Orleans”), which is in a hurricane zone and which (I think we all can agree) sustained considerable hurricane-related flood damage. Your 1 mile park wouldn’t require any New Orleans residents to leave New Orleans since New Orleans is farther than one mile in-land. In fact, on reread, your proposal leaves no one with any choices – if it’s a no-build zone, you can’t build, no choice about it.

Again, not picking a fight, but you seemed mighty upset that I commented about New Orleans’ position vis a vis the Gulf, and that’s why I’ve replied. You would be surprised how many folks think New Orleans is right on the damn Gulf.

[NinetyWt]

Green Bean, please excuse me if I seemed “mighty upset”. And no, I wouldn’t be surprised at the number of people who think NO is right on the Gulf; I agree with you; people really are ignorant of a lot of things. I didn’t mean to be snippy.

JohnBckWLD It’s a good thing, and I’m appreciative. But that’s not what I was bitching about when I said no one gives a damn; I’m bitching about the slowness of that trickling down - I’m bitching 'cause of the painfully slow progress. I’m just frustrated and bitching.

[Ivorybill]

I don’t have much to add here beyond what I’ve posted in previous threads about New Orleans (linked earlier in this thread), but The Long Road is correct that we’re now seeing a slow but steady second evacuation of the area. Many people with the means to go and little to hold them here (and even those like The Long Road who have the means to stay and plenty of reasons to stay) are voting with their feet their confidence in the long term future of this area. This second evacuation is taking away a lot of talent.

I keep reminding myself that we’re only 9 months or so into this. Personally, I think it will be at least a decade before we know what the new New Orleans will look and act like. Perhaps longer, if we get that long. There are good days and bad days.

[whole_bean]

@NinetyWt

Green Bean, please excuse me if I seemed “mighty upset”. And no, I wouldn’t be surprised at the number of people who think NO is right on the Gulf; I agree with you; people really are ignorant of a lot of things. I didn’t mean to be snippy.

it’s cool. BTW, I’m whole bean, green bean is another poster. we’re not related, that I know of.

[NinetyWt]

:eek:

Hit by Gaudere’s Law!

whole bean whole bean whole bean

I think I’ve got it. Sorry about that. And now, I think I will try to be less hijack-y.

[The_Long_Road]

When considering how close New Orleans is to the Gulf, the question gets tricky because it depends on which area you are speaking of, downtown or all of Orleans Parish. If you are only speaking of downtown, then yes there is a decent distance to the Gulf. New Orleans East(subdivision) is mighty close when you consider that Lake Borgne is open to the Gulf. Lake Pontchartrain is also open to the Gulf and has a tendency to get might high along the South shore when a storm comes anywhere close. Many nights when attending UNO I saw Lakeshore drive flooded and water at the levee when a storm was in the Gulf but not threatening New Orleans directly.

The Westbank has less of a chance to flood but still has to worry about Bayou Barataria and a Rita type storm going in West of the city somewhere around Morgan City. Next storm I figure the government will probably start buying out homeowners instead of paying to rebuild.

[Marley23]

@TJdude825

Um, huge riots and protests from every beach community in the country?

I was thinking “the land becomes very cheap and the area immediately becomes populated by poor people who can’t afford to live many other places. Because they’re in a no-build zone, protecting the area from storms and taking proper precautions on the federal or state level becomes a low priority. Eventually a storm comes, and their homes, business and propety are destroyed. They get no help from the government, which ‘told them so,’ and maybe they wouldn’t get too much from charities either.”

In other words, this would change little or nothing. Except that the outcome might be worse, and I guess people would be encouraged to blame the victims.

[NinetyWt]

More in the spirit of the OP, I’m posting a couple of e-mails which I recieved from my sister. She’s employed at Tulane, and was not able to go back to N.O. until January. Here’s one she wrote on March 19th:

There is a group called the Krewe of Katrina (Krewe Aiding in Trash Removal In the New orleans Area or something like that). It was started by a couple of yuppie uptown housewives and has balloned into a full-fledged non profit getting donations, coordinating with the city sanitation dept, etc. They are about more than just cleaning up Katrina trash, but also want to try to change the trash landscape that existed before K. The women just got tired of seeing all the trash around. They pick up trash on Wed and Saturday mornings. They have had as many as 400 people show up on some saturdays. I have gone twice now. Yesterday we went to a very busy intersection and worked our way down the adjoining streets. My friend Ann and I picked up trash in front of one property, then attacked a vacant lot next door. This was about all we were able to manage. So we only cleaned maybe 80 linear feet of the street. The weeds were knee-high so we were extracting trash from out from under the growth, which was tedious. Had to get it out piece by piece.
The house, most of the windows were boarded up and I first thought that probably no one lived there, but then I heard the washing machine going. Pretty sad-looking place. In the area we were in, undoubtedly most of this trash existed before Katrina ever came along. New Orleans has had a terrible litter problem for years.
So we’re working in this lot and I smell something, bad. I think to myself, Maybe a dead rat or a dead cat or something. Or, maybe even a dead body (although I don’t think it smelled bad enough to be that). Eventually I spotted the source of the smell - the people on the other side of the lot, whom I’d seen come home a while earlier, had simply pushed their upright freezer out the back door into their own backyard. It landed on its lid and was cracked open. They had not bothered to throw out the contents.
I thought to myself well, we can come over here and clean trash up but there’s little one can do about a person who will throw their still-full freezer out into their own backyard. Sheesh. I guess they don’t open their windows too often to catch the breeze.

The weather down here has been pretty nice. This is the best season for us, down here. Highs in the 70s, lows in the 50s and 60s. The trees are starting to green up which is helpful to the landscape. We lost many beautiful trees, though, and I figure it’s going to be a very Hot summer. That’s when we’ll really notice how many trees and tree branches are gone.

I have been walking in the mornings, just around my neighborhood. Sometimes I think I should bring a camera with me to photo graph the different scenes. Beautiful homes with fully planted flowerbeds; big huge piles of construction debris, garbage, and loose trash. Big giant potholes due to water main breaks. Handmade signs warning of potholes.
I guess that’s kind of the way things are here in N.O., generally. Normal things interspersed with really weird things, and really tragic things, and really ugly things . . . There are plenty of people who we know who have left, and others considering it. My old boss, for one.

[NinetyWt]

@Marley23

Because they’re in a no-build zone,
<snip>
Eventually a storm comes, and their homes, business and propety are destroyed.

Wait, Marley - if it is a “no-build” zone then there would not be any homes or businesses in it. The community has the authority to implement zoning. If you attempted to build there, you would not be able to get a building permit, hook up to any utilities, and the structure could possibly be torn down at your expense.

If I understand it correctly, hazard zones (such as floodway zones) are not considered a “taking” of property (yet ).

[SteveG1]

@Theios

Only if you extend that idea to those living along major faults, tornado alley, area fequently burned to a crisp by wildfires, along the Mississippi river flood plain and in and around the volcanoes in the NW. So… Where is it safe to build?

Ditto. But you forgot blizzards and droughts and locusts and tsunamis. Let’s just shut down the whole planet. It’s always easy to write off someone else.

[NinetyWt]

I will just politely leave this thread with a quote from my baby sister:

New Orleans will definitely survive, I don’t think there’s any question about it.

[The_Long_Road]

@NinetyWt

I will just politely leave this thread with a quote from my baby sister:

Of course it will survive. It’s the condition of the city which will be in question.