# New papers found, Abe Lincoln gay--what would change? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732 "2010-06-28T00:45:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/1 "2010-06-28T00:45:44Z")
It’s August 12, 2010 and lost letters of Abraham Lincoln are found in a trunk. Love letters. To a man. They are explicit and unambiguous. Honest Abe was honestly gay. What would happen? How much would his reputation suffer? Would there be any chance such a revelation would help with gay acceptance? Would the GOP still trumpet itself as “the party of Lincoln”? Would people just refuse to believe it, no matter what evidence came out? Would it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/2 "2010-06-28T00:57:36Z")
Technically, that would make Abe _bisexual_, not homosexual, as there is no disputing that he had sexual relations with women. I would expect a lot of people to deny the evidence, try to prove it fraudulent, etc, even if it was solidly proven. People have amazing capacity for self-deception. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/3 "2010-06-28T01:09:28Z")
Abe Lincoln, a bisexual vampire hunter? Not sure that it would make any difference except to the rabid southerners - the type who call the Civil War “The War of Northern Aggression”. I’d call them Republicans too, but given that Abe was a Republican, well… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/4 "2010-06-28T02:13:43Z")
We would put the _Queer Eye_ team in charge of giving the Lincoln Memorial a new color scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/5 "2010-06-28T02:55:24Z")
The more conclusive the evidence, the more vociferously the Republicans would deny its authenticity. At some point Republicans/conservatives will place liberals into the position of having to prove some minor, yet unverifiable aspect of the newly unearthed information and, being unable to do so, liberals will, once again, be successfully cast by conservatives as somehow either making the entire thing up, or possessing an agenda the sole purpose of which is to destroy the US. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/6 "2010-06-28T04:46:48Z")
For me, you’d have to have some pretty compelling evidence that he wasn’t banging his wife on a regular basis for me to accept him as **The Gabe** , either way, I’d be kickin’ back with a tall cold glass of Who Gives a Fuck, but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/7 "2010-06-28T05:40:31Z")
The Rail Splitter, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/8 "2010-06-28T05:45:43Z")
Fox News would would run a chyron reading: **Abraham Lincoln (D) discovered to have been homosexual** ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/9 "2010-06-28T05:47:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Technically, that would make Abe _bisexual_, not homosexual, as there is no disputing that he had sexual relations with women. Sexual orientation is defined by attraction, not behavior. Lots of gay men have had sex with women or been married to them. That doesn’t make them bisexual. Hell, Elton John was married to a woman once. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/10 "2010-06-28T06:00:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Technically, that would make Abe _bisexual_, not homosexual, as there is no disputing that he had sexual relations with women. Plenty of 100% homosexuals have had sexual relations with people of the opposite sex . . . especially that long ago. Even if this revelations didn’t matter to anyone else, it would certainly matter to gay people . . . even more so to the Log Cabin Republicans. And hopefully, one possible effect would be a lessening of homophobia among African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/11 "2010-06-28T06:04:55Z")
Well, it’s not Aug. 12, 2010. I haven’t lived that long and either have you. So what? Does that mean that he wasn’t the 16th President of the United States or Commander in Chief during the Civil War? Does that mean that he didn’t issue the Emancipation Proclamation? Does that mean that he wasn’t assassinated or that he was assassinated because he was gay? What’s your friggin’ beyond stupid point? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/12 "2010-06-28T15:01:21Z")
I think it will somewhat cloud his reputation with a certain group of people, but by and large not make too much of a difference as to his legacy. for comparison consider Jefferson and Sally Hemings. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/13 "2010-06-28T15:03:41Z")
I think that whatever the level of proof in the papers, anyone who would have a problem with him being gay would simply deny it. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/14 "2010-06-28T15:39:18Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I think that whatever the level of proof in the papers, anyone who would have a problem with him being gay would simply deny it. I agree. How many people would bother to read the letters in question? A bunch of academics, then they would write papers, then the newspapers would take an angle on it and then the fringe news people would try to sell their angle. It would be very easy to just decide it is too muddled to bother with, and who cares anyway, just like so many other topics of debate. It might be fun to watch the GOP try to use this to get the gay vote. Personally, its easy to picture him married to a woman without forming a mental image of him actually having sex. Now that the letters spell it out I’m having a hard time not picturing a pair of pale old Abes, naked except for top hats, in a tangle of limbs. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/15 "2010-06-28T15:43:22Z")
I see the stovepipe hat making a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/16 "2010-06-28T17:38:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I think that whatever the level of proof in the papers, anyone who would have a problem with him being gay would simply deny it. Similarly, if there were a letter from Lincoln specifically declining a gay man’s advances and spelling out that he was not himself gay and had no interest in homosexual liasons, that segment of people who want to believe Lincoln was gay would work around it. ::shrug:: People are going to believe what they want to believe either way, I reckon. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/17 "2010-06-28T20:12:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It’s August 12, 2010 and lost letters of Abraham Lincoln are found in a trunk. Love letters. To a man. > > They are explicit and unambiguous. Honest Abe was honestly gay. > > What would happen? How much would his reputation suffer? Would there be any chance such a revelation would help with gay acceptance? Would the GOP still trumpet itself as “the party of Lincoln”? Would people just refuse to believe it, no matter what evidence came out? Would it matter? I wonder if it would have some sort of effect on the tolerance for homosexuality in the black community. But I doubt most people on this baord would care regardless of the color of their skin. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/18 "2010-06-28T20:48:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I wonder if it would have some sort of effect on the tolerance for homosexuality in the black community. I brought this up in a previous post. I believe the only people who would be significantly affected by this revelation would be gays and blacks. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/19 "2010-06-28T21:04:34Z")
I dunno, I think some middle of the roaders who are just going along with an anti-gay agenda out of cultural inertia might be inspired to actually, ya know, examine the issue and decide to swing behind Abe (snerk). Don’t know if that would represent a significant number. Especially over time, I mean, with solid evidence, after 10 years ‘StaightAber’ could be the new birther. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-papers-found-abe-lincoln-gay-what-would-change/544732/20 "2010-06-28T21:22:55Z")
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