# New PC BS...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [March 10, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318 "2003-03-10T15:41:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/21 "2003-03-10T20:37:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \*
> \*\*Dont’ mind me, I thought this was going to be a computer rant. \*\*
And I thought the OP was going to be trashing Dan Rather.
St. John’s had as its mascot a guy in a red tuxedo? _That_ was supposed to instill fear in the opposing team?
“The zone defense was bad enough…now they’re doing “Putting On The Ritz”!!!”
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/22 "2003-03-10T21:01:17Z")
Can’t believe I’m the first to call bullshit on Ravitch’s book. The book hasn’t been published yet, so we can’t actually take a look at her cites, but I’m just the weest bit skeptical that she’s representing things accurately.
Unmitigated bullshit. That’s my prediction. “Politically Correct” is the right-wing equivalent of the left-wing “fascist”: it’s what the intellectually lazy throw at their opponents when they can’t think of a real argument, when they want to sit around snickering snidely with their intelligence-challenged compatriots.
Daniel
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/23 "2003-03-10T21:27:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by asterion \*
> \*\*I don’t know, especially about hut.
>
> I mean, Jabba the Small House just doesn’t inspire the same sense of fear and loathing. And do you really want to order from a place called Pizza Small House?
>
> Not to mention Pizza the Small House. \*\*
But one must remember that Jabba was not a hut but a Hutt.
Which means that PC-speak would make him Jabba the Smallll Housse.
Visualize him as saying “We hatessss those hobbitses and their smalll housssessss.”\*
- This probably deserves a smial-ey of its own. 😉
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### Author:  [@3.885AM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3.885AM)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/24 "2003-03-10T21:45:44Z")
Rain forest warfare just doesn’t seem to quite fit Vietnam.
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### Author:  [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/25 "2003-03-10T22:12:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RAWDuke \*
> \*\*Round and round we go. \*\*
Exactly.
In his book “The Blank Slate”, Steven Pinker (professor of psychology at MIT; his research includes the psychology of language) writes:
> [@](#):
>
> Linguists are familiar with the phenomenon, which may be called the euphemism treadmill. People invent new words for emotionally charged referents, but soon the euphemism becomes tainted by association, and a new word must be found, which soon acquires its own connotations, and so on. _Water closet_ becomes _toilet_ (originally a term for any kind of body care, as in _toilet kit_ and _toilet water_), which becomes _bathroom_, which becomes _restroom_, which becomes _lavatory_. _Undertaker_ changes to _mortician_, which changes to _funeral director_. _Garbage collection_ turns into _sanitation_, which turns into _environmental services_. _Gym_ (from _gymnasium_, originally “high school”) becomes _physical education_, which becomes (at Berkley) _human biodynamics_. Even the word _minority_ - the most neutral label conceivable, referring only to relative numbers - was banned in 2001 by the San Diego City Council (and nearly banned by the Bostin City Council) because it was deemed disparaging to non-whites. “No matter how you slice it, _minority_ means less than,” said a semantically challenged official at Boston College, where the preferred term is AHANA (an acronym for African-American, Hispanic, Asian, and Native American).
(italics in the original)
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### Author:  [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/26 "2003-03-10T22:27:55Z")
Am I the only one to notice that the OP refers to FoxNews “We distort, you decide”. Or did I miss a :rolleyes: somewhere?
Trusting right wing tabloid entertainers to accurately report on left wing sociology is, perhaps, not the best way to fight ignorance.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/27 "2003-03-10T23:06:57Z")
I’m with **Tapioca Dextrin**. I’m skeptical on this report-Fox News for crissakes!
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/28 "2003-03-10T23:36:35Z")
While we are talking about linguistic abuses and euphemisms (slight hijack) - how did real estate salesmen (dammit, salespersons) manage to get themselves promoted to Realtors?
We have police officers, doctors, lawyers, developers and serial killers, but somehow Realtors think they deserve to have their profession capitalized, as if they’re perched on velvet Century 21 thrones.
I wanna see Fox do an expose on this.
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### Author:  [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/29 "2003-03-11T00:13:32Z")
OK, I think the whole thing is stupid.
But…fairies and and elves aren’t even the same thing!
Fairy=Tinkerbelle
Elf=Galadriel
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### Author:  [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/30 "2003-03-11T00:20:27Z")
I don’t know, all this word word changing sounds fun, to me. If you can’t keep up, you’re an old fart! Off to human biodynamics I go!
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### Author:  [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/31 "2003-03-11T01:54:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Founding Fathers, the (banned as sexist; replace with “the Founders” or “the Framers”)
This makes no sense. In history, hasn’t it been the men who have almost always been the “founding fathers?” Then why try to include women in that?
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/32 "2003-03-11T02:13:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> how did real estate salesmen (dammit, salespersons) manage to get themselves promoted to Realtors?
That’s easy. About 80 years ago, they got together, coined the word, and then got it trademarked.
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### Author:  [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/33 "2003-03-11T02:27:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by monica \*
> \*\*This makes no sense. In history, hasn’t it been the men who have almost always been the “founding fathers?” Then why try to include women in that? \*\*
Heh. When I went back to college at the age of 37, I was sitting in my Political Sci class when the prof said something about The Framers. It was the first time I had heard it. Me and a couple of the other adult students just had blank looks on our faces until he said something about Constitution and you could see it dawn on us all at the same time. “Ohhh… well, that’s stupid.”
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### Author:  [@ProjectOmega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProjectOmega)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/34 "2003-03-11T04:37:50Z")
That list looks more like a joke than anything.
One question though: I’ve heard before that calling Asia the “East” or “Far East” is Eurocentric. I forget the exact arguements why that was so, but can anyone fill me in? I’m trying to think why anyone would find that offensive, and I can’t for the life of me figure it out.
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### Author:  [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/35 "2003-03-11T05:07:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Arden Ranger \*
> \*\*Heh. When I went back to college at the age of 37, I was sitting in my Political Sci class when the prof said something about The Framers. It was the first time I had heard it. Me and a couple of the other adult students just had blank looks on our faces until he said something about Constitution and you could see it dawn on us all at the same time. “Ohhh… well, that’s stupid.” \*\*
I’m not sure if this is universal, but my 12th grade government teacher was careful to differenctiate between the “founding fathers” and the “framers.” The framers are those who put the Constiturion together. The founding fathers are those who were involved in the general founding of this country (this could include such Anti-Federalists as Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams; and Thomas Jefferson, who didn’t really either support or go against the Constitution, and definately didn’t help write it).
She was the only person I ever heard this distinction from, though.
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### Author:  [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/36 "2003-03-11T05:12:52Z")
The term Founding Fathers was not mentioned at all throughout the entire semester, nor was it in my American History class the next year. They were always referred to as The Framers.
It was very disconcerting to have something you have known all your life to just _poof_ be gone like that.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/37 "2003-03-11T06:09:45Z")
Don’t forget Beaver University (or college) which changed it’s name to something like Arcadia University because people were having trouble finding it on PCs that had filtering software. I imagine that Morehead University will be the next one forced to change it’s name for that reason.
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### Author:  [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/38 "2003-03-11T07:16:42Z")
Here are some more examples from the Atlantic Monthly article (my comments in [brackets]):
> [@](#):
>
> Blind leading the blind, the (banned as handicapism)
>
> Courageous (banned as patronizing when referring to a person with disabilities)
>
> Elderly, the (banned as ageist; replace with “older people”)
>
> God (banned)
>
> Hell (banned; replace with “heck” or “darn”)[I can just see it: Dante’s \*Heck\*]
>
> Inspirational (banned as patronizing when referring to a person with disabilities)
>
> Lame (banned as offensive; replace with “walks with a cane”)[“Oh, that’s so walking with a cane.”]
>
> Limping along (banned as handicapism)
>
> Majority group (banned as offensive)
>
> Minority group (banned as offensive)
>
> Satan (banned)
>
> Senior citizen (banned as demeaning to older persons)
>
> Stickball (banned as regional or ethnic bias) [???]
>
> Straw man (banned as sexist; replace with “unreal issue” or
> “misrepresentation”) [or straw person]
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by tomndebb \*
> On the other hand, why is the web site (and the thread title) claiming to attack Political Correctness, specifically? The phrase PC is generally aimed at the political Left, yet the Right is just as capable of censoring ideas and language.
Let me offer a provisional definition of political correctness: substituting word b for word a when offensiveness is suddenly attributed to word a which has no history of offensiveness. Note: I’m limiting this to words or very short phrases.
Now, care to provide a few right-wing examples? Maybe you consider “pro-life” to be the right-wing politically correct term for “anti-choice” or “anti-abortion”. Or perhaps “capitalism” versus “exploitation of the masses”? There’s one I’ll concede: “Creation science”.
> [@](#):
>
> I do not know whether Ravitch’s book focusses exclusively on the Left, but if it does, it does nothing to challenge the problems that schoolkids face.
What problems does this cynical word-shuffling address? This **is** a problem in itself, at least in that the effort expended could be directed towards something more productive. Furthermore, any sensible person knows this word-shuffling is bullshit and only decreases respect for the people who do this or see it and do nothing.
\
And frankly, I’m sick of the word “challenge”. Challenging something is, at best, just a beginning. Solutions can be long, hard, and boring. Some people think all they have to do is “challenge” something, and the people who actually do the work to solve the problem are secondary.
\
> [@](#):
>
> If its focus is on the evils of Left wing censorship, then it would seem to simply seek to replace wholly bland pap with Right-biased pap.
From the article: “This list of banned words and stereotypes is an abridgment of a lengthy glossary compiled by a historian from bias guidelines issued by major educational publishers and state agencies. The guidelines are used by writers, editors, and illustrators when preparing textbooks and tests for K-12 students.”
And what is so “Right-biased” if someone uses “elderly” as opposed to “older persons”? Where are the long lists enforcing “Right-biased” words?
Please note: most of the offensive terms given are not “Right-biased pap.” They are just out-of-fashion left-biased pap being replaced by new left-biased pap.
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by DanielWithrow_
> Unmitigated bullshit. That’s my prediction. “Politically Correct” is the right-wing equivalent of the left-wing “fascist”: it’s what the intellectually lazy throw at their opponents when they can’t think of a real argument, when they want to sit around snickering snidely with their intelligence-challenged compatriots.
To support the reality of PC, I’ll cite the recent flap about New York Regents exams. (NY Times, June 6, 2002, “State Exams Are to Regain Real Wording In Passages.”)
> [@](#):
>
> In recent weeks, [NY education commissioner] Mills has received letters from prominent figures in literature, including the novelists Annie Dillard and Frank Conroy and the poet Wendell Berry, complaining about the state’s policy of editing passages in the Regents exam, a policy described in an article in The New York Times on Sunday. The editing – characterized by critics as an ill-conceived effort to be politically correct – deleted nearly all references to race, religion, ethnicity, sex, nudity, alcohol and even modest profanity.
>
> ‘‘Who are these people who think they have the right to ‘tidy up’ my prose?’’ wrote Mr. Conroy. ‘‘The New York State Political Police? The Correct Theme Authority?’’
And what do we say about merely declaring something “intellectually lazy”? Does that involve intellectual effort or is it just snide snickering?
Sorry, PC is alive and well no matter how much you try to deny it.
Finally, I’d like to offer the **1957** comedy routine by Stan Freberg about political correctness, [Elderly Man River](http://freberg.8m.com/text/elderly_man.html). Now, ironically, it is un-PC.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/39 "2003-03-11T07:33:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ProjectOmega \*
> \*\*That list looks more like a joke than anything.
>
> One question though: I’ve heard before that calling Asia the “East” or “Far East” is Eurocentric. I forget the exact arguements why that was so, but can anyone fill me in? I’m trying to think why anyone would find that offensive, and I can’t for the life of me figure it out. \*\*
Well, it’s only “East” relative to the West. Who wants to be defined by their geographic proximity to someone else? Additionally, it encourages people to think of Asia as a unified whole that is utterly and completely different than what we know- they think “eastern thoughts” while practicing “eastern philosophy” and doing “eastern stuff” in general. In reality, Asia is a hugely varied place that blends in gradually and seamlessly with “the West”. It’s not some vast wierd monolithic “other”.
Few of these definitions seem all that outrageous. Textbook writers have to write _something_. Why not write stuff that isn’t offensive. I mean, we do tend to say that Europeans live in “small houses” while saying that a similer structure in another country is a “hut”. “Busybody” is kind of a bad word, and does instantly bring up a pretty negative stereotype of women. I doubt these textbooks would print “chauvanist pig”, either. The “Regatta” case is a pretty famous one- they were using it on a test, and only the rich kids had any clue what it meant.
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### Author:  [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pc-bs/160318/40 "2003-03-11T11:13:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by dwc1970 \*
> **I agree, the whole list is pretty stupid. So what are we supposed to say when we mean “east” or “eastern?” _Longitudinally advanced?_**
BWAHAHA! Lol!
I can see where East and West can be considered wrong. But we do need some terms. A westener seeing an easterner or vice-verca won’t instantly be able to tell which country they’re from, so needs some catch all term.
OK, lumping stuff in as eastern philosophy is wrong.
As for ‘old,’ peope _are_ old, there’s nothing _wrong_ with being old, there’s extraneous in the name - ‘old’, ‘elderly’, ‘senoir citizens’, ‘chronologically advanced’, ‘m/p atriarchs’_, ‘coffin dodgers’_ all mean old. Some terms might have bad connotations, but if I’m refering to people over 70 (or whatever), any term I use is going to _mean_ 'people over 70 (or whatever) THERE’S NO GETTING AWAY FROM THAT!
\*OK, these do have connotations
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