# New poll: Majority of Americans support legalising gay marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736 "2011-05-22T01:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/101 "2011-05-25T17:41:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > True/absolute morality, I believe, can only be determined by God. However an utilitarian morality can be fashioned by sane and intelligent people although it is subject to change and relative. There’s no such thing as absolute morality. For that matter, there’re pretty few absolute anything outside of maths and vodka. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/102 "2011-05-25T17:44:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > There’s no such thing as absolute morality. For that matter, there’re pretty few absolute anything outside of maths and vodka. I’ll drink to that! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/103 "2011-05-25T18:51:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > There’s no such thing as absolute morality. For that matter, there’re pretty few absolute anything outside of maths and vodka. Good line. 😃 Pride has the more ‘sterotyped’ ooh, scary, it’s a man in a pink feathery dress! participants as well as - at least in London - millions of people just walking along. It’s a parade, so it’s not surprising that people will dress up and be, well, flamboyant. And it’s about acceptance for all gay people, not just the most straight-acting. It’d be a bit hard to say it was gay ‘Pride’ if we said ‘Pride for everyone except you people who are the most obviously gay.’ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/104 "2011-05-25T22:07:20Z")
As a wise man once noted: Vodka corrupts. Absolut vodka corrupts absolutly. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/105 "2011-05-26T07:04:15Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > Bullshit. > > Most people’s exposure to gay life is the guy who makes their latte, or their teacher, or their friend or their sibling. That’s why attitudes are changing, those people came out of the closet. Guess what, gay pride parades helped them do that, it’s part of the process that you are ignoring with your bizarre “what about the homophobes?” emotional appeal. My exposure to gay life is a shade closer than the guy (or girl, because who goes to the same person twice?) who makes my latte. I didn’t say that pride parades weren’t useful. There is no emotional appeal to homophobes. But this idea that people who don’t _understand_ gay people are automatically homophobic assholes. That’s not true. > [@](#): > > Why does life always have to revolve around sex? I’m not supposed to answer this from a biology point of view, right? > [@](#): > > I’ve seen pictures of students celebrating spring break that are worse than anything you posted in this thread. And I find that distasteful and trashy as fuck as well. Well, no - immature and distasteful. Trashy is when thirty five year old women walk around on Halloween like they’re hooker nurses. I guess we all have our opportunities to act like freaks. > [@](#): > > Does that mean the world is ending because the next generation are sexual degenerates (whatever that is)? Don’t ask me. > [@](#): > > Or maybe, just maybe, it is an isolated example of people celebrating life and having some fun. I will say that standards of decency have lowered significantly. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I think that if you look at my anecdote up there, the homophobes can turn anything, even a happy occasion such as a wedding, into some frightening scare-tactic. It’s completely useless to pander to them. There’s no pandering. I happen to think that dildo parades are in no way beneficial to the American public and I’m pretty sure if you poll the American public, they’ll agree with me on matters of taste. Much more than the 60 per cent (give or take) who support civil unions/same-sex marriages. > [@](#): > > What if it works and the gays all parade around dressed in suits and polos? I don’t even wear polos. Where is this coming from? > [@](#): > > People will think that’s what gay is, accept them, and then what will they do when confronted with the reality that part of gay culture includes chaps and leather? They would try to divide the gays and turn them against each other. WTF since when does _dudes liking dudes_ mean you’re all signing the same tune? Where’s the rainbow in your flag? > [@](#): > > “Normal” gays versus the “degenerate” gays. I think it’s better just to let it all out at once and if it pushes acceptance back a few years, that’s the price that has to be paid to be inclusive to everyone Yeah, well, I’m sorry, but the assless chaps dudes make it harder for the Adam and Steve types to adopt. > [@](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply that you were a homophobe, only that you want to cater to them. No. It means that I don’t believe in a world where\* everything goes.\* Does it make me a homophobe or someone who’s turned off by sadism, multiple sex partners, and a culture of sex? Because gay culture is more about sex and less about the politics. Too bad. > [@](#): > > I don’t worry about what Fox News says. They will say the worst of gays that’s true and make up lies to make them seem even worse. Even if all gays were Log Cabin Republicans, they’d still not be invited to the debates or have any airtime for their causes. I don’t have TV, but my point was that they matter because people do listen. It’s not just Fox News. The people polled who responded favorably are not spread out across America. How many states can two gay guys get married in? Hmm? > [@Tristan](#): > > A way for even your closeted gym teacher to put on a dress and some make up and get out there and BE GAY even if it’s just for a day. An opportunity for your mechanic, living celibate because he is afraid to lose his job, to get out there, dance a little bit and BE GAY with no fear, and no stigma. And yes, it’s a chance for your leather daddy to wear what he probably wears on a regular basis to wear that exact outfit, and be himself… but that also means he’s BEING GAY, and that there is nothing wrong with that. I reject that. Places where there are leather daddy parades are places of general acceptance. In San Francisco, New York, or Chicago, you’re only in the closet if you _want_ to be. It’s the guy in Duluth, MN, who is afraid to lose his job moreso than the guy in SF. Gay communities kind of self-segregate as well. You’re just not going to find a gay neighborhood in BFE, Nebraska. > [@](#): > > It’s important to note that that leather daddy might be ok with BEING GAY and being himself now, but 20 years ago, he may have been killed for doing it. And someday, hopefully soon, so will the gym coach, and the mechanic, and everyone else will be able to just be themselves, with no fear. I reject that everyone in their natural state is always the best state. > [@](#): > > I’m not gay. Me, either. > [@](#): > > But I will fight for their rights, to marry, Me, too. > [@](#): > > to love, Such a thing knows no law. > [@](#): > > to throw a parade with a man wearing chaps and a dildo, Yeah, now there is where I draw the line. > [@](#): > > and to live in peace and dignity. …something about a man wearing chaps and a dildo and the word _dignity_ attached to it just won’t make sense in my brain. > [@](#): > > Being human is a spectrum. Of course. But you can’t ‘accept’ every thing that is human. We do not accept murder, sexism, rape, etc., etc. So while being gay is no crime and is nothing to be fixed, I’m not so sure that a sexualized community is a psychologically productive one. > [@Sandwich](#): > > Did I miss something? _Obviously._ > [@](#): > > You are against Pride because of all those damn homos who are getting teenage girls pregnant, just like they got you pregnant? _Are you sure about that?_ Let me help you: [HIV](http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#hivaidsexposure) [Multiple Sex Partners: (Still) Higher Risk for Gay Men (Even if the # of partners is similar to heterosexual men)](http://sexualhealth.e-healthsource.com/index.php?p=news1&id=608187) [Sexualization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexualization) I reject the idea that it’s OK to depict gay culture as _sex, sex, sex, sex, sexual objects, sex._ Maybe _you_ are okay with a stereotype of cruising for dicks, but I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/106 "2011-05-26T13:33:56Z")
I’m starting to wonder, if **CitizenPained** had been around in the 60s, would (s)he have been all in favor of civil rights for Negros who could pass the paper bag test? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/107 "2011-05-26T13:40:50Z")
To be fair, I’m getting a distinct impression of \*\*CitizenPained \*\*as not someone who has a problem with homosexuality, per se, but as someone who is overcome with the vapors when \*anything \*relating to sex makes its way into the public sphere. I mean, someone has to think of the children, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/108 "2011-05-26T14:38:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > To be fair, I’m getting a distinct impression of \*\*CitizenPained \*\*as not someone who has a problem with homosexuality, per se, but as someone who is overcome with the vapors when \*anything \*relating to sex makes its way into the public sphere. > > I mean, someone has to think of the children, don’t they? Someone has to think of the homophobes and she seems to have appointed herself in that role. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > My exposure to gay life is a shade closer than the guy (or girl, because who goes to the same person twice?) who makes my latte. I didn’t say that pride parades weren’t useful. There is no emotional appeal to homophobes. But this idea that people who don’t _understand_ gay people are automatically homophobic assholes. That’s not true. I suppose some of them are like you and find anything to do with sex distasteful, so I’m happy to widen the category to homophobes and prudes. The rest of what you wrote isn’t worth responding to, but I’m not sure why you said this: > [@CitizenPained](#): > > I guess we all have our opportunities to act like freaks. since you clearly don’t think homosexuals should have that opportunity, lest the homophobes and prudes use it out of context against them for the rest of eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/109 "2011-05-26T20:11:49Z")
Right. I find assless chaps in public distasteful and I’m a prude. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/110 "2011-05-26T20:18:07Z")
How do you feel about thong bikinis at a public beach? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/111 "2011-05-26T20:24:59Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Right. I find assless chaps in public distasteful and I’m a prude. I think you’re coming off as a clueless nitwit personally. You sound like someone who would suggest I can’t kiss my fiance in public because we are an interracial couple and someone might have a problem with it. Or like someone who would suggest I can’t wear pants because I’m a woman and someone might have a problem with it. You can be very sensitive and delicate with your own actions if you like, but when you’re trying to push your attitudes onto others, something other than a cry about not offending the ignorant would be a good idea. People don’t get into positions of rights and power by being meek. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/112 "2011-05-26T21:15:21Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Right. I find assless chaps in public distasteful and I’m a prude. Your examples of “distasteful public behavior” so far have been a picture of two shirtless guys on a motorcycle, and a transsexual dressed up like a Vegas showgirl. Plus a bunch of links to the DSM describing a variety of sexual deviancies, with the implication that the former are examples of the latter. I’d say “prude” is putting it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/113 "2011-05-28T18:23:54Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > True/absolute morality, I believe, can only be determined by God. Only if the existence of that God were objectively proven, along with the morality he demands. Otherwise it’s merely a subjective opinion. I can claim that there’s a rock in my backyard that demands to be worshiped, and spews forth “absolute morality.” In fact, carved into its surface is the word “truth.” Is your claim any more valid than mine? ---
**Author:** ![thisishowwepray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@thisishowwepray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thisishowwepray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/114 "2011-05-30T07:25:17Z")
**CitizenPained** , I fail to see anything morally apprehensible about any adult participating in any consensual sexual activity that doesn’t harm anyone. As you mentioned, homosexuality was considered a psychological illness until recently, and now it isn’t. Many of the examples you gave of other sexual practices currently considered pathological will likely be removed from the DSM with time, too. Consensual kink is a healthy part of many adults’ sex lives. The sort of disdain you show towards healthy displays of adult sexuality are the sex-negative attitudes that cause slut shaming and victim blaming (“she deserved to be raped because she was sexually active and wore revealing clothing”). Anyway, it’s great to see number like those in the polls mentioned, and display of widespread pro-gay-rights beliefs in the media (recently in the NBA, with the It Gets Better Project, Lady Gaga, etc.). We’re winning! ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/115 "2011-05-30T08:33:51Z")
> [@thisishowwepray](#): > > **CitizenPained** , I fail to see anything morally apprehensible about any adult participating in any consensual sexual activity that doesn’t harm anyone. As you mentioned, homosexuality was considered a psychological illness until recently, and now it isn’t. Many of the examples you gave of other sexual practices currently considered pathological will likely be removed from the DSM with time, too. Consensual kink is a healthy part of many adults’ sex lives. I’ve never claimed to be the moral police. I’ve also never claimed that homosexuality was any sort of deviant behavior - that would be rather odd, coming from me. But I do think that I’m allowed to find certain behavior a turn off, crude, or what have you. I won’t apologize for not wanting to be in the same group as the leather daddies. _shrug_ If that makes me prude, so be it! My links were pointing out that the gay community often reinforces untrue stereotypes that too many traight people think they have. I don’t agree with a culture that revolves entirely around sex. > [@](#): > > The sort of disdain you show towards healthy displays of adult sexuality We clearly disagree on that - > [@](#): > > are the sex-negative attitudes that cause slut shaming and victim blaming (“she deserved to be raped because she was sexually active and wore revealing clothing”). That is\* such \*bullshit. If anything, it’s the “anything goes in sex” attitude that causes victim-blaming - or just sheer homophobia, e.g., the fear that gay men prey on gay teens. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/116 "2011-05-30T08:35:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Your examples of “distasteful public behavior” so far have been a picture of two shirtless guys on a motorcycle, and a transsexual dressed up like a Vegas showgirl. Plus a bunch of links to the DSM describing a variety of sexual deviancies, with the implication that the former are examples of the latter. > > I’d say “prude” is putting it mildly. Um, I wasn’t aware of the rules with certain photos and I couldn’t post spoilers. That being said, I’d say that two shirtless dudes on a motorcycle is a little odd on any day…but…even though I have said this _ten thousand times_, you insist on pointing out that I didn’t post crude pictures from work. ::thumbs:: You stay classy. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/117 "2011-05-30T08:41:13Z")
[QUOTE] > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think you’re coming off as a clueless nitwit personally. Aww, are you fewwing fwetened > [@](#): > > ? > > You sound like someone who would suggest I can’t kiss my fiance in public because we are an interracial couple and someone might have a problem with it. Are you projecting? Since when does walking around half naked have anything to do with interracial couples? > [@](#): > > Or like someone who would suggest I can’t wear pants because I’m a woman and someone might have a problem with it. Over-react much? Are you the type that also is OK with a guy ramming a dildo up his wife’s ass when she’s unconscious? wtf are your associations coming from ? > [@](#): > > You can be very sensitive and delicate with your own actions if you like, but when you’re trying to push your attitudes onto others, something other than a cry about not offending the ignorant would be a good idea. People don’t get into positions of rights and power by being meek. Newsflash, Princess. This is **Great Debates**. I’m allowed to have one of those opinion thingers. You’re not required to like it, agree, or even respond, but if you \*must \*bitch, at least make some sense. I’m not here to push anything on you - you can act like an idiot in public if you want to. Do you see my trying to legislate anything? Ban assless chaps in public? Nope. I have an opinion about people who walk around looking like idiots and if you think that makes me some kind of moral or fashion police, that’s not my problem. Everyone is judgmental. That’s how humans operate. I’m honest about it. So are you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/118 "2011-05-30T14:53:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think you’re coming off as a clueless nitwit personally. This is not The BBQ Pit. Back off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/119 "2011-05-30T21:24:51Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is not The BBQ Pit. > > Back off. > > [/Moderating] Heh, actually I thought this thread was in the Pit. Paying attention? Not my strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736/120 "2011-05-30T21:30:48Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Heh, actually I thought this thread was in the Pit. Paying attention? Not my strong suit. Aaaaaand that wasn’t Asimovian. It was me. I think I’ll go take a nap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-majority-of-americans-support-legalising-gay-marriage/582736.md?page=7)