# New Poll Shows Democratic Incumbents in Big Trouble **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 2, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902 "2013-11-02T02:45:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/61 "2013-11-24T04:41:46Z")
The cost was wildly underestimated. It’s a lot easier to sell something to the public when they think it won’t cost them much. That’s why we have the CBO now. The CBO isn’t authoritative because they are accurate, they are authoritative because they are impartial. Prior to that, politicians would just throw out figures that served their agenda, like Medicare only costing $9 billion by the 1980s, or the SS tax only being 1%. Who wouldn’t take retirement security for 1% of their income? 7.5%, that might have given workers pause. Of course, by the time the bill actually came due, the programs were untouchable. I think Democrats counted on that happening this time. Just lie and lie until you have a dedicated corps of beneficiaries, by which point it doesn’t matter anymore. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/62 "2013-11-24T05:54:50Z")
Are there gonna be dragons and unicorns in this fable? I like the ones that have dragons and unicorns. Just no kissing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/63 "2013-11-24T05:58:24Z")
Be happy. YOu got away with the first two. This one, you got busted. Hopefully your side will pay the price like adults and we can have a minimum of whining over the next few years of GOP dominance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/64 "2013-11-24T06:11:04Z")
And the best part is, if the Democrats ever try to pass a major piece of legislation like this again, we can highlight how much they lied about this one and people will actually remember. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/65 "2013-11-24T07:52:51Z")
We can only hope they don’t remember Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, worker’s compensation, child labor laws…Don’t worry, people, Big Business will take care of you. We don’t need no stinkin’ laws… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/66 "2013-11-24T08:37:54Z")
Ah yes, because there are examples of programs that people like, therefore people should just trust Democrats and like everything they suggest. Trust is a two way street though. Democrats shouldn’t have demonstrated mistrust of the public by lying to them, telling them that the program would benefit everyone when in reality it’s a welfare program. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/67 "2013-11-24T11:06:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If the CBO was correct, that is. The CBO has a tendency to be the most correct as any and they set the baselines for scoring all budgetary legislation out of Congress. Add to that the ‘real’ data that health care costs have been going down for several years and there is little reason to believe that the CBO would be way off. Their projections surely will not go up based upon actual costs going down. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/68 "2013-11-24T11:12:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ah yes, because there are examples of programs that people like, therefore people should just trust Democrats and like everything they suggest. > > Trust is a two way street though. Democrats shouldn’t have demonstrated mistrust of the public by lying to them, telling them that the program would benefit everyone when in reality it’s a welfare program. In the long run the ACA will benefit everyone including those 1.5 million who will pay a percentage more for insurance next year. The main reason being that the inflationary rate of increase for health care in the US is finally slowing down . IN the meantime I wonder if sites like Politico will make a big deal out of this big lie by a high ranking Republican Leader: > [@](#): > > Josh Marshall – November 23, 2013, 4:00 PM EST3032 > Late last week Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) made a big show of trying but failing to sign up for Obamacare because of the notoriously buggy website. (Actually he appears to have been using the DC exchange site.) He even did a special tweet noting his hopeless situation. Not terribly surprising given the frustrating experiences so many have had. > > Actually, it turns out he had successfully enrolled and got a call confirming that about an hour after his tweet. But it gets better. > According to Scott MacFarlane, a reporter for the local NBC affiliate in Washington, reports that a DC Health Care exchange representative actually tried to contact Boehner by phone during the enrollment process but was put on hold for 35 minutes, after which time the representative finally hung up. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/69 "2013-11-24T11:25:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Most Americans think that the law will help the poor and uninsured. If we define them as the winners, and everyone else has to pay more, then the law is going to be a bigtime political failure. The political market hasn’t been willing to accept a new welfare program in a very long time, especially one that was sold this dishonestly as something that would benefit all Americans. Obama has already dealt with those in the private markets that will pay more. The insurers cannot blame the increase in their renewed policies on the ACA. That affects about two million Americans. Many of those will continue to gripe no matter what because of political orientation . But those relatively few in number will not have a long run major negative impact on the overall public’s acceptance as the ACA as a good program for all. The heyday for political opposition attack on the ACA is now and will begin to subside as soon as the website gets up and rolling and people realize what they are getting. Another thing critics of the ACA are forgetting right now is that all Americans were being ‘taxed’ in the status quo health care delivery system when the costs for treating the uninsured were buried into what a hospital charges patients for an aspirin and a box of Kleenex. Back then the ‘tax’ was imposed more at the whim of the Medical industry than by the government. Now we the people have some say in how that ‘tax’ is imposed. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/70 "2013-11-24T14:02:23Z")
Well, we agree on one thing: when the website works and the public sees what they are getting, how they feel about that will decide the law’s fate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/71 "2013-11-24T14:53:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the best part is, if the Democrats ever try to pass a major piece of legislation like this again, we can highlight how much they lied about this one and people will actually remember. [**This** is what they will remember.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/obamacare-single-payer_n_4312394.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/72 "2013-11-24T15:18:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Be happy. YOu got away with the first two. This one, you got busted. Hopefully your side will pay the price like adults and we can have a minimum of whining over the next few years of GOP dominance. Totally. The GOP has made massive strides in the Latino vote, especially with replacing the Dream Act with the Don’t Even Think About it! Act. And, of course, the urban poor is totally psyched about the cut in food stamp benefits, But hey! Free drug testing! Are you on drugs? Better find out, maybe you are, maybe you aren’t. As referenced above, Rush Limbaugh is taking on the task as spokescreep for the GOP in their outreach to women. And Moms with children covered under their insurance will sleep better knowing that the Republicans are eager to yank that out from under them. And that’s not even to mention women troubled over decisions about when and whether or not to have children in the first place. Don’t worry your pretty, albeit empty, little head about it! Old white men will decide that! Leaving the white vcte. Divided between the Damn Right I’m White vote and the White? Yeah, Sure, I Guess vote. Except for those white people who are either poor, young, female, or educated. Leaving the Koch Brothers and the Waltons. Not the Waltons on TV, who lived on Walton’s Mountain. The ones who _own_ Walton’s Mountain. Yep, nothing but brown skies ahead! ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/73 "2013-11-24T17:18:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ah yes, because there are examples of programs that people like, therefore people should just trust Democrats and like everything they suggest. > > Trust is a two way street though. Democrats shouldn’t have demonstrated mistrust of the public by lying to them, telling them that the program would benefit everyone when in reality it’s a welfare program. Well, see, that’s the difference between us. I think welfare programs do benefit everyone. Poor people dying in the streets is such an \*unpleasant \*sight… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/74 "2013-11-25T04:36:52Z")
That’s up to the public to decide, and so far the reaction to welfare programs ranges from mixed to hostile. As for single-payer, Glutton, good luck with that. I’m sure if ACA fails, Americans will be rushing to the Democrats to take away the health insurance of all those who didn’t lose it to ACA. The unions especially will adore being dumped into Medicaid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/75 "2013-11-25T04:40:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s up to the public to decide, and so far the reaction to welfare programs ranges from mixed to hostile. Then why do we still have them, after plenty of election cycles to rethink the whole thing? Hint: **Not** because people on welfare vote. (Actually, they rarely do.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/76 "2013-11-25T04:42:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for single-payer, Glutton, good luck with that. I’m sure if ACA fails, Americans will be rushing to the Democrats to take away the health insurance of all those who didn’t lose it to ACA. 😕 “Take away”? The nearest example of a single-payer country is Canada, and while there might be some criticisms to be made of their health-care system, **nobody** there **lacks** basic coverage. So “take away” is apparently your personal idiosyncratic euphemism for “give.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/77 "2013-11-25T04:45:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Then why do we still have them, after plenty of election cycles to rethink the whole thing? Hint: **Not** because people on welfare vote. (Actually, they rarely do.) Well, welfare was reformed in 1996, after a Democrat captured the White House for the first time by promising to “end welfare as we know it”. That took welfare from a top 10 issue to a low priority issue, since it cut the welfare rolls by two thirds. There hasn’t been a big new welfare program since LBJ. Everything since then has been small bore, since Americans do support programs that are cheap(and small programs seem to work better than big programs), or in the case of ACA, couched as something closer to SS and Medicare than the welfare program that it is. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/78 "2013-11-25T04:47:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 “Take away”? The nearest example of a single-payer country is Canada, and while there might be some criticisms to be made of their health-care system, **nobody** there **lacks** basic coverage. So “take away” is apparently your personal idiosyncratic euphemism for “give.” So you’re single payer system would work by allowing people to have BASIC coverage that they purchase which gives them better access than the single payer system? That’s what we have now. People can have private insurance, or if they are poor enough, they can have Medicaid. So sure, extend Medicaid to anyone without insurance, we can do that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/79 "2013-11-25T04:48:21Z")
Why are you explaining away the prospect of losing while insisting that you won’t? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902/80 "2013-11-25T04:56:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So you’re single payer system would work by allowing people to have BASIC coverage that they purchase which gives them better access than the single payer system? You might want to reconsider the logic of that sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-in-big-trouble/672902.md?page=5)