# New pope will be black? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 28, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878 "2004-12-28T03:36:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/21 "2004-12-28T17:32:11Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > Yup. Anyone cane be elected to be pope. Provided that in your definition of anyone, you exclude women, gays, non-catholics. Exclude the openly gay, perhaps. Considering the (very) long-time use of the priesthood as a haven for men who didn’t fit into the “get married and have children” expectations, and some of the excesses of the medieval and Renaissance popes, and some of the proclivities of some of the most talented artists patronized by them, I’d say that “exclude…gays” was, in practice, a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/22 "2004-12-28T18:00:35Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > 😕 > > Do you have a cite for this, **lee**? I knew he was from Africa, but I had always assumed it was Roman Africa and that he was European/Levantine. Is this something with evidence behind it or is it along the lines of “Cleopatra (the famous one) was black”? Well, my understanding comes from very conservative older white priests. I was told that my college’s St. Augustine dorm was named for him, that Augustine Tolton chose the name at least partly because Saint Augustine was black. Saint Augustine’s father is listed as a pagan from Africa, whis is not inconsistant with being black. I have seen several images, including some older images of St. Augustine that depicted him with dark skin. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/23 "2004-12-28T18:11:23Z")
You know, about a third of the posts in this thread are the sort of racist glurge that in other contexts would stir up Pit threads, and deservedly so. Me, I hold no particular enthusiasm for Bps. Wotyla or Arunze – they’re good men with some myopic qualities, IMO. But the ethnic stereotypes going on here really make you folks sound like a bunch of good ol’ boys puttin’ down them “ethnic tyles” down at the Dew Drop Inn. We’re supposed to be **combatting** ignorance, not seducing it! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/24 "2004-12-28T18:30:20Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Well, my understanding comes from very conservative older white priests. I was told that my college’s St. Augustine dorm was named for him, that Augustine Tolton chose the name at least partly because Saint Augustine was black. Saint Augustine’s father is listed as a pagan from Africa, whis is not inconsistant with being black. I have seen several images, including some older images of St. Augustine that depicted him with dark skin. St. Augustine’s father was a North African pagan (born in what is now Algeria, to be precise). North Africa then, as today, was primarily peopled by groups like the Berbers, not Black Africans. And in 384 AD, being an African pagan was most likely not terribly uncommon, even for lighter-skinned peoples. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/25 "2004-12-28T18:36:07Z")
> [@lee](#): > > One does not need to be a cardinal first. St. Augustine was black. Whoever the new pope is, he will be very conservative. The roots of the church in Africa are ancient. Remember priests do take an oath against modernism. If the new pope is black, it will be because he has conservative views, not because they are trying to be modern or make a show of diversity. This pope is Polish. That was considered out there at the time he was elected. He has done a very thorough job of filling the College of Cardinals with conservatives. He has replaced more modern minded bishops with very conservative ones. Augustine was black? Aside from that, I don’t think he was pope, was he? FTR, I’m not Roman Catholic, but I am not happy about the prospect of another archconservative pope. For that reason I wish it would be a European, who would almost certainly be more liberal, but I can’t imagine that will happen. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/26 "2004-12-28T18:39:31Z")
No, he was not pope, but he was more influential the many popes. Cardinals over 80 can’t vote for pope. Most people I talk to think that this was done just so that any remaining liberal would not be able to influence the election. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/27 "2004-12-28T18:44:46Z")
Meh. Wake me when he’s gay. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/28 "2004-12-28T18:47:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Meh. Wake me when he’s gay. \ Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Is he gay yet? Homer: NO! Bart: But he’s wearing a dress! \ ---
**Author:** ![Iceland\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@Iceland\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iceland_Blue)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/29 "2004-12-28T18:53:35Z")
It was Paul VI who introduced that rule,so that’s going back a few decades now.It wouldn’t have made any difference in terms of ‘blocking liberals’ as regardless of the age limit,because of the length of John Paul II’s reign,most would be dead by now and those who weren’t would be considering who to elect some 30 years or so after the rules… ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/30 "2004-12-28T19:38:40Z")
> [@Balle\_M](#): > > Well, if you have to be a Cardinal first how about Ozzie Smith? He’s got the resume. He started as a Padre and is working his way up the ecclesiastical ladder. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/31 "2004-12-29T00:13:53Z")
> [@gatopescado](#): > > I, for one, am boning up for a new black pope. > > “Does a bear shit in the woods? Does the pope smoke crack?” > > “Two popes are walking across a bridge and have to take a piss. Pio XIII says, ‘Man, that water is cold!’. To which Invictus IV replys, ‘Yeah, and its DEEP.’” > > From now on, turkey tails, and not chicken tails will be known as “Pope’s noses”. > > Hey, who is that knocking at the dooor? OH NO! Its the “PC” Police and they are dragging me away from the keyboa > > 😉 If you have any more bigotted, crude and juvenile quips, restrict them to BBQ Pit where others can give them the attention they so richly deserve. This warning has absolutely nothing to do with your supposedly not being “PC”, btw, and no one here is going to accept that tired excuse for rudeness. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/32 "2004-12-29T00:17:51Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Augustine was black? Aside from that, I don’t think he was pope, was he? > > FTR, I’m not Roman Catholic, but I am not happy about the prospect of another archconservative pope. For that reason I wish it would be a European, who would almost certainly be more liberal, but I can’t imagine that will happen. Even if European, the next Pope is NOT going to be liberal. Not going to happen, nuh-uh, not a chance. If they choose a European pope, it’s going to be someone with Opus Dei connections, and those folks are definitely not liberal. The current College would sooner eat a whole roast beef on Good Friday than vote in a liberal pope. ---
**Author:** ![pope\_hentai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@pope\_hentai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pope_hentai)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/33 "2004-12-29T00:28:00Z")
my vote goes for father albenitzi! ---
**Author:** ![ridealong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@ridealong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ridealong)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/34 "2004-12-29T01:15:40Z")
Just a question–does the Catholic church have a mechanism that would allow the current Pope to retire? And if so, what would happen to him (maybe a title like “Senior Cardinal” or something), and how much influence would he have over the choice of his successor? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/35 "2004-12-29T01:19:22Z")
> [@ridealong](#): > > Just a question–does the Catholic church have a mechanism that would allow the current Pope to retire? And if so, what would happen to him (maybe a title like “Senior Cardinal” or something), and how much influence would he have over the choice of his successor? He can [abdicate](http://slate.msn.com/id/1007125), but it hasn’t happened in a long, long time, and JPII hasn’t indicated any desire to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/36 "2004-12-29T02:38:29Z")
I vote for either Don Novello or László Tóth, but I wouldn’t protest if they chose Father Sarducci. Still, I have to think that a black pope, conservative or not, would be a good choice. He’d be able to point a global spotlight on many of the problems currently gripping Africa, which tend to get glossed over in the Western media. Oh, wait, you heard this on Art Bell. _I’ve_ got a better chance of being pope than this ever coming to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/37 "2004-12-29T03:25:24Z")
Let’s hope he’d be able to strike down complex world issues with great vengeance and furious anger. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/38 "2004-12-29T04:09:22Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > He’s got the resume. He started as a Padre and is working his way up the ecclesiastical ladder. And he’s already demonstrated his near-infallibility in the field! ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/39 "2004-12-29T04:49:53Z")
I gotta agree with **Polycarp** and **Czarcasm** aboutsome of the comments here. I’m kind of astounded at some of the stuff that’s been said. It mostly bothers me because it seems stupid. I mean I’d be offended by hateful stuff (which I don’t really detect in these posts), but the jokes and stuff just seem unfunny and ill-informed, which is not what I’ve come to expect from the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/40 "2004-12-29T04:59:15Z")
On rereading my post, realize I sound a bit harsh. While I mean what say above, I don’t wish to attack anybody either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878.md?page=3)