# New pope will be black? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 28, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878 "2004-12-28T03:36:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/41 "2004-12-29T12:04:33Z")
I doubt very much that an African cardinal has much of a chance to become pope, but I’d love to see it happen, if only to see how purple William Donahue’s face can get when he hears the news. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/42 "2004-12-29T18:10:12Z")
As for black saints, St. Maurice is usually depicted as a Moor, and his statue in the [Cathedral of Magdeburg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Magdeburg) is considered the earliest realistic depiction of a black person in European art. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/43 "2004-12-29T20:28:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > \ > > Bart: But he’s wearing a dress! > \ And his purse is on fire. Note that cross dressing does not directly correlate to homosexuality. Only apocyphal I’m sure but I’ve heard that JP I had such a short reign because of his liberal views on birth control. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/44 "2004-12-29T20:32:29Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > And his purse is on fire. > > Note that cross dressing does not directly correlate to homosexuality. _raises my very gay hand_ I know that. We’re allowed to make fun of it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/45 "2004-12-29T20:56:48Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > I vote for either Don Novello or László Tóth, but I wouldn’t protest if they chose Father Sarducci. Still, I have to think that a black pope, conservative or not, would be a good choice. He’d be able to point a global spotlight on many of the problems currently gripping Africa, which tend to get glossed over in the Western media. Personally, I think it would be a \*terrible \* choice. In college (Notre Dame), I did a group project on the child soldiers in Liberia, and another group did theirs on female genital mutilation, and we set up an interview with one of the African priests in the theology department to pick his brain. We were absolutely horrified at some of his responses, particularly regarding the FGM subject. I want to be proven wrong, but I don’t have much hope for there being many enlightened socially conscious cardinals coming from the African church. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/46 "2004-12-29T21:04:56Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I doubt very much that an African cardinal has much of a chance to become pope, but I’d love to see it happen, if only to see how purple William Donahue’s face can get when he hears the news. Surely you’re not suggesting that the Catholic League, that bastion of humorless offenderati, is also racist! I mean, I’m sure when they said that Hollywood was controlled by Christ-hating Jews, they really meant something completely different. _nods_ ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/47 "2004-12-29T21:08:12Z")
I think we do need some fresh ideas in there, I stand by my nomination. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/48 "2004-12-30T00:32:39Z")
Here is an article from last year handicapping the race. Talks a bit about Arinze. All but 5 of the 134 voting cardinals at that point were placed there by JPII – so it seems pretty much for sure that there is going to be no liberal revolution, this time around. [http://slate.msn.com/id/2089815/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2089815/) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/49 "2004-12-30T00:43:51Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I doubt very much that an African cardinal has much of a chance to become pope, but I’d love to see it happen, if only to see how purple William Donahue’s face can get when he hears the news. So he’s a racist too? Damn, I hate the Catholic League. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/50 "2004-12-30T03:29:40Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Remember priests do take an oath against modernism. Do you have a link to that oath? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/51 "2004-12-30T04:06:59Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Do you have a link to that oath? [Yes,](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10moath.htm) [I](http://www.unavoce.org/oath.htm) [was](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1910oathvmodernism.html) [able](http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P10MOATH.HTM) [to](http://www.cin.org/oathmod.html) [find](http://www.dailycatholic.org/oathvmod.htm) [a](http://www.cmri.org/95prog9.htm) [few](http://www.saint-mike.org/Library/Papal_Library/PiusX/Letters/Modernism_Oath.html)[.](http://www.geocities.com/militantis/oathvatican2.html) I see in reading these cites that it is no longer required, it ceased being required in 1967 and since all the priests who participated in Vatican II had to take it, many see the outcome of Vatican II as proof that all of those involved broke their vow. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/52 "2004-12-30T05:33:03Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I see in reading these cites that it is no longer required, it ceased being required in 1967 and since all the priests who participated in Vatican II had to take it, many see the outcome of Vatican II as proof that all of those involved broke their vow. So then your earlier statement that “Remember priests do take an oath against modernism” is somewhat less than correct. You’re citing a 95 year old oath, that hasn’t been required since 1967, according to your own cite. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/53 "2004-12-30T06:15:42Z")
While I agree that some people are behaving very childishly in this thread, I have to admit that Ozzie Smith comments elicited a giggle. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/54 "2004-12-30T07:02:21Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > So then your earlier statement that “Remember priests do take an oath against modernism” is somewhat less than correct. You’re citing a 95 year old oath, that hasn’t been required since 1967, according to your own cite. I relied on what I had been taught only a few years ago. How many of the Cardinal who will be voting took this oath? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/55 "2004-12-30T12:26:57Z")
More than 50 replies on this thread? “New Pope will be human”. There. Shocked? What the hell difference does it make what colour he (or she) is? WHY is it even a topic worthy for discussion. Some people really do have bees in their bonnets about race, don’t they. Here’s one for you: “New Pope will have ginger hair”. Is that worth 50 replies? Hint: No. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/56 "2004-12-30T12:31:39Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > More than 50 replies on this thread? > > “New Pope will be human”. There. Shocked? > > What the hell difference does it make what colour he (or she) is? WHY is it even a topic worthy for discussion. Some people really do have bees in their bonnets about race, don’t they. > > Here’s one for you: “New Pope will have ginger hair”. Is that worth 50 replies? > > Hint: No. I’d say the majority of the replies that aren’t nasty, juvenile jokes are reasoned posts that basically say that the African church tends to be very conservative and the next pope is likely to be very conservative, whether he’s African or not. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/57 "2004-12-31T00:43:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So he’s a racist too? Damn, I hate the Catholic League. Much as I think William Donahue is a loudmouth who gives his cause a bad name, I’ve yet to see evidence that he’s racist. His Hollywood Jews comment is a swipe against a cultural-political-irreligious community (he singled out “secular Jews”). If religious politically-conservative Jews controlled Hollywood & put out inoffensive pics, he wouldn’t be fussing against them. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878/58 "2004-12-31T00:54:11Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > So then your earlier statement that “Remember priests do take an oath against modernism” is somewhat less than correct. You’re citing a 95 year old oath, that hasn’t been required since 1967, according to your own cite. It also has to be remembered that the “Modernism” against which they took that oath is a 19th Century anti-clerical philosophical movement, not “modernism” as we might take it to mean today. There is, however, a relatively conservative set of mind inculcated in Church methods of teaching the various aspects of theology. A rather conservative group of Catholics on a Christian board I frequent seemed to be generally of the view that Arunze is one of the leading candidates, if and when JPII’s body finally fails or he decides to break modern precedent and step down in favor of a physically abler man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pope-will-be-black/281878.md?page=2)