# New Prisoner Abuse Photos: Now It's The Navy's Turn **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053 "2004-12-04T13:11:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/1 "2004-12-04T13:11:47Z")
[More photos of prisoners in Iraq being abused](http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTIC//XML/1152_Cabinet/cd4e9e96-4842-46f2-b17a-b4745d5acd38.html) have surfaced. This time it’s Navy SEALs doing it, taking war trophy pictures, and bringing them home to share with the family. > [@](#): > > The U.S. military has launched a criminal investigation into photographs that appear to show Navy SEALs in Iraq sitting on hooded and handcuffed detainees, and photos of what appear to be bloodied prisoners, one with a gun to his head. > > Some of the photos have date stamps suggesting they were taken in May 2003, which could make them the earliest evidence of possible abuse of prisoners in Iraq. The far more brutal practices photographed in Abu Ghraib prison occurred months later. > > An Associated Press reporter found more than 40 of the pictures among hundreds in an album posted on a commercial photo-sharing Web site by a woman who said her husband brought them from Iraq after his tour of duty. So, which smug pundit will be the first to tell us this is no big deal, just a little good-natured funnin’ around? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/2 "2004-12-04T13:18:34Z")
The photos do appear to have violated Navy regulations. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/3 "2004-12-04T15:14:41Z")
Hey, it could be worse. At least they’re not cutting their heads off. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/4 "2004-12-04T15:27:13Z")
I saw a comedian on TV recently. He was saying that lawyers may find it harder than they thought to convict Sadaam for his crimes because he didn’t take any photos of himself doing it. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/5 "2004-12-04T15:35:23Z")
I’d like to briefly discuss the mindset of the Navy wife who said, “hmm, these are some interesting photos…and I do have a snapfish account with Aunt Kitty’s 50th on there, I think I’ll put these disgusting prisoner abuse photos up…you know, just for the family and friends to see.” good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/6 "2004-12-04T16:09:21Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > So, which smug pundit will be the first to tell us this is no big deal, just a little good-natured funnin’ around? Or more likely: “Anything we do is fair game. They’re terrorists, after all.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/7 "2004-12-04T16:14:18Z")
If they weren’t before, they most likely are now. Wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/8 "2004-12-04T16:19:39Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > I’d like to briefly discuss the mindset of the Navy wife who said, “hmm, these are some interesting photos…and I do have a snapfish account with Aunt Kitty’s 50th on there, I think I’ll put these disgusting prisoner abuse photos up…you know, just for the family and friends to see.” > > good stuff. Perhaps she’s secretly a liberal patriot and hoped it would get out? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/9 "2004-12-04T16:24:14Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Perhaps she’s secretly a liberal patriot and hoped it would get out? Not too likely, given her reaction to the photos being found by the media: > [@](#): > > The wife said she was upset that a reporter was able to view the album, which includes family snapshots. “Well, the nerve! How dare that nosy reporter go snooping around in our happy family memories?” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/10 "2004-12-04T16:37:07Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Not too likely, given her reaction to the photos being found by the media: “Well, the nerve! How dare that nosy reporter go snooping around in our happy family memories?” Makes me want to burst into song #Me and you and a prisoner named Apu# ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/11 "2004-12-04T16:40:22Z")
Anyone remember the hypocritical outrage in the US because (3) US POW’s where visible for a few moments on TV? While at the same time there were pictures circulating showing dead Iraqis and hooded Iraqis and US soldiers standing on the backs of hooded Iraqis who were piled up (one above the other) on the back of a truck… Etc… Anyone still surprized about the outrage among the Iraqi population that led to the attack at, the death of and the mutilation of the dead “contractors”? Which was revenged by a full scale murderous attack by the USA on Fallujah? Anyone still surprized by this latest “discovery”? If yes, then I can only say: Oh.My.God… You still believe war is a video game. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/12 "2004-12-04T16:45:33Z")
Anyone have a link? The only pictures I have seen were on CNN and they do not show any specific incidents of abuse. I only saw the report, I could not hear what they were saying. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/13 "2004-12-04T17:40:04Z")
Well shit, the SEALs are supposed to be a competent, responsible military unit. When it was the reservists breaking the rules people could say ‘it was dumb kids with no war experience and no discipline’ but you can’t say the same thing about the SEALs. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/14 "2004-12-04T17:50:05Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Hey, it could be worse. At least they’re not cutting their heads off. :eek: Not retail, with knives. Nope, the USA is [doing it wholesale, with massive firepower](http://fallujahinpictures.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/15 "2004-12-04T21:50:43Z")
The only question is how effective the military has been at running interference on this. We know the military has employees actively deployed to distort and outright lie in order to benefit operations in Iraq. Does this extend to concealing unfavourable photos? Undoubtedly. Is the military effective at this? Undoubtedly. So given an incident made public, what then is the multiplier we use to guess at the actual number of atrocities committed and recorded by US servicepeople? Large. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/16 "2004-12-04T21:57:56Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Or more likely: “Anything we do is fair game. They’re terrorists, after all.” Still no sign of **Brutus.** Must be stuck in holiday traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/17 "2004-12-04T22:07:38Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Well shit, the SEALs are supposed to be a competent, responsible military unit. When it was the reservists breaking the rules people could say ‘it was dumb kids with no war experience and no discipline’ but you can’t say the same thing about the SEALs. I hope you don’t mean to defend what those worthless pieces of trash at Abu Ghraib did. I’m probably about the same age as them, and it disgusts me that they would do such a thing. And that the president won’t even apologize. ---
**Author:** ![TonyF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TonyF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyF)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/18 "2004-12-04T22:11:43Z")
He was just pointing out a possible line of reasoning. Is anyone surprised about this? This is what happens in war. It is one of the many reasons why the decision to wage war should not be taken lightly. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/19 "2004-12-04T22:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=TonyF] This is what happens in war. /QUOTE] I am tempted to type this reply in size 10 bold italic red. It’s what happens when men are let loose with guns without effective structures deciding what their powers should be. If effective and appropriate systems had been in place, it wouldn’t have happened, as it wouldn’t have happened in Abu Ghraib. But (as has already been noted), these allegations are against an elite force. Can you really claim that they’ve never heard of Geneva, that they’ve no idea what they’re supposed to do with prisoners, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/20 "2004-12-04T23:06:05Z")
Hmmm… Oh to be a fly on the wall for the conversation where she tells him that his pics are now “evidence.” _Umm… Honey… you know those pictures from Iraq you sent me?_ Yes… \*Well I thought it would be a neat idea to put them in a web photo album to show some friends and family what my big guy is up to over there. \* Jesus Christ! You didn’t put _those_ prisoner pics up! _Well… you see…it was supposed to be a private photo album_… but that darn Google … [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053.md?page=2)