# New Prisoner Abuse Photos: Now It's The Navy's Turn **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053 "2004-12-04T13:11:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/121 "2004-12-06T19:55:48Z")
> [@Nietzsche](#): > > **Mr. Moto** : > His mindless cheerleading and gleeful support of the death of innocents is indicative of two things: Perhaps I missed something, but - Cite ? I don’t recall any gleeful support of the death of civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/122 "2004-12-06T19:57:12Z")
Well, I think it would be more productive to logically examine his arguments rather than demanding he enlist. Have you ever been in the military, **Nietzsche**? It isn’t for everyone. And I find it a bit distasteful that the military service of others is being used as a rhetorical tool against someone. It seems a bit disrespectful of said service, which should be honored in its own right. ---
**Author:** ![Nietzsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8dc957/32.png) [@Nietzsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nietzsche)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/123 "2004-12-06T20:18:09Z")
> [@The Truth](#): > > Perhaps I missed something, but - Cite ? > I don’t recall any gleeful support of the death of civilians. Oh please. You’re right. You didn’t specifically say you want innocents killed. But you did say… > [@](#): > > This is true, unless one wishes to see the conflict escalated. and > [@](#): > > There we go again with the enraged muslims. Well, they can all join Al-Qaeda for all I care. I’m tired of hearing about “the arab street” or enraged muslims. > They need to clean house, or else they will be dealing with enraged Americans. and > [@](#): > > And all this talk about them hating us, and how we need to suck up to certain people is a load of crap. War is hell, certain things and incidents are going to happen regardless. We shouldn’t apologize, we shouldn’t feel sorry, we should just move on, because we have a lot more work to do… So perhaps you stopped just short of cheering for the death of innocents, but you certainly were dancing quite gleefully around it. To suggest otherwise is nothing short of disingenuous horseshit. **Mr Moto** : Well, you’ll forgive me for not sharing your view that the military is some deity that should never be mentioned in discussion. If you are so concerned about the disrespect of your fellow soldiers, perhaps you should direct your ire at those who are deliberately wishing for an escalation of the conflict while they themselves face no direct harm. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/124 "2004-12-06T20:26:33Z")
> [@Nietzsche](#): > > So perhaps you stopped just short of cheering for the death of innocents, but you certainly were dancing quite gleefully around it. So in other words, your accusation was false, misleading and untrue. And an escalation of the conflict is what I see as a good strategy, IMO. The conflict is far from over, and it is smart to identify ones enemies from the start. I don’t buy into the two-faced game that certain people play. I’m not just referring to Iraq of course. Iraq is just a small piece in the bigger puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/125 "2004-12-06T20:37:30Z")
> [@Nietzsche](#): > > **Mr Moto** : > Well, you’ll forgive me for not sharing your view that the military is some deity that should never be mentioned in discussion. If you are so concerned about the disrespect of your fellow soldiers, perhaps you should direct your ire at those who are deliberately wishing for an escalation of the conflict while they themselves face no direct harm. Is that my view? I thought my view was that someone’s status as a civilian shouldn’t be used to pressure such person to not express his opinions. And right now, I don’t face direct harm either. Am I permitted to have opinions on this subject? I assume you’re not going to call me a chickenhawk. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/126 "2004-12-06T21:13:20Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Is that my view? I thought my view was that someone’s status as a civilian shouldn’t be used to pressure such person to not express his opinions. It made sense the first time **Mr. Moto**. Sadly, this thread has degenerated into yet another bile spewing contest. I disagree that it’s the **stupidest** such exchange ever seen here. For example, the recent tumult over Canadians vs Americans, seems to me, at least equally pointless. There’ve probably been worse cases, but thankfully, they’re soon consigned to the dustbin of history. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/127 "2004-12-06T22:53:28Z")
> [@vinryk](#): > > **The Truth** > Troll alert !!! Troll alert !!! > People like this make me physically sick. > You, sir, are dumber than a bag of broken hammers. > I am really surprised you are able to use a keyboard, or do you have somebody to type in your mental diarrea? Are people like you even allowed on this forum ? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/128 "2004-12-07T01:31:24Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Your status as a military member, veteran, or civilian is immaterial to this. And I really don’t like snide insinuations that civilians can’t morally support the war. That doesn’t let you civilians off the hook, you know. You have to evaluate the situation critically, like the rest of us. I agree that saying he has no right to support the war if he’s not fighting is ludicrous. However, his statement of “Bring it on baby,” when he’s not willing to be the one getting it brought on him, strikes me as moral cowardice: “Let’s you and him fight.” ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/129 "2004-12-07T03:14:34Z")
I agree with Sublight. The point is that it’s very easy to sit in your easy chair with your hand down your pants “watching the war” on CNN and scream “BRING IT ON! YOU KILL ONE WE KILL TEN! THAT’S THE CHICAGO WAY” when there is exactly ZERO chance that he will suffer even a scratch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/130 "2004-12-07T03:25:41Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > I agree with Sublight. The point is that it’s very easy to sit in your easy chair with your hand down your pants “watching the war” on CNN and scream “BRING IT ON! YOU KILL ONE WE KILL TEN! THAT’S THE CHICAGO WAY” when there is exactly ZERO chance that he will suffer even a scratch. I’m not just talking about Iraq, I live in the city that is the most desirable terrorist target in the entire USA. When and if the next attack happens, chances are it’ll be near by me, so I’ll say whatever the fuck I please about the matter, and I won’t have any fascist morons trying to censor my views or tell me I don’t have a right to speak my mind if I don’t sign up or do this or that. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/131 "2004-12-07T03:51:43Z")
Cry me a river. I work in a high rise in the financial district of Chicago. You don’t get a little badge for living near a terrorist target. No one here is censoring you, just pointing out that loudmouth pussy shouldn’t really be screaming get it on when he’s not the one giving up his fucking head when it’s brought. I’m a target for terrorists too. I want them stopped as well, I just hate to see our nation’s military reduced to a scrapbook of photos of dumbass soldiers getting their rocks off about how they duct taped some guys balls or whatever. Is that really how you want the WHOLE REST OF THE FUCKING WORLD to see your country? Talk all you want “Mr. Truth”. You’re losing your mind. In the words of beetlejuice: IT KEEPS GETTIN’ FUNNIER…EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/132 "2004-12-07T04:00:25Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Cry me a river. I work in a high rise in the financial district of Chicago. You don’t get a little badge for living near a terrorist target. > > No one here is censoring you, just pointing out that loudmouth pussy shouldn’t really be screaming get it on when he’s not the one giving up his fucking head when it’s brought. > > I’m a target for terrorists too. I want them stopped as well, I just hate to see our nation’s military reduced to a scrapbook of photos of dumbass soldiers getting their rocks off about how they duct taped some guys balls or whatever. Is that really how you want the WHOLE REST OF THE FUCKING WORLD to see your country? > > Talk all you want “Mr. Truth”. You’re losing your mind. In the words of beetlejuice: IT KEEPS GETTIN’ FUNNIER…EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT! There’s nothing wrong with saying “Bring it on.”. We are at war afterall, and it is desirable to engage the enemy before rather than afterwards. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. You don’t see me trying to censor anybody, or tell them to STFU, just because I don’t like what they’re saying. As for how the world sees us, they’re going to look at us through their tainted glasses regardless, so it doesn’t really matter what they think. What matters is winning the war of course, and once again, I don’t just mean Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/133 "2004-12-07T04:09:49Z")
> [@The Truth](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with saying “Bring it on.”. We are at war afterall, and it is desirable to engage the enemy before rather than afterwards. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. You don’t see me trying to censor anybody, or tell them to STFU, just because I don’t like what they’re saying. As for how the world sees us, they’re going to look at us through their tainted glasses regardless, so it doesn’t really matter what they think. What matters is winning the war of course, and once again, I don’t just mean Iraq. No one is trying to censor you. I’ll try to make this as easy for you to understand as possible. You have a right to post, within the rules of this message board, whatever you like. You do not have a right to post whatever you like here without other people saying you are an idiot, or that your posts smack of a certain degree of chickenhawkosity. Not that difficult to understand, really… Every time I have the paperwork to naturalize all filled out, I meet someone like you, on line or in the real world. And the papers get shelved for another period. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/134 "2004-12-07T04:11:57Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Reality check: > > Maybe you mean well but I fail to see why any US soldier invading a sovereign nation while killing thousands of its civilians would - and could - ever be considered as part of “The Good Guys”. > > Invaders of invading nations are not “Good Guys”. They are the army of the Criminals that ordered the invasion and occupation. > > Salaam. A Thank god we have Pinhead Aldebaran out here to point things out. Apparently, according to this genius, the USers can do anything they want, since they’re already the bad guys in every concievable way. Now that we’ve accepted this, genius A will need to get a new schtick. Salaam. J ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/135 "2004-12-07T12:54:50Z")
> [@The Truth](#): > > I’m not just talking about Iraq, I live in the city that is the most desirable terrorist target in the entire USA. When and if the next attack happens, chances are it’ll be near by me, so I’ll say whatever the fuck I please about the matter, and I won’t have any fascist morons trying to censor my views or tell me I don’t have a right to speak my mind if I don’t sign up or do this or that. I’m practically next door to the NYSE, about as high value as it gets. You don’t hear me screaming war cries of BRING IT ON!!! In fact I’m more like DON’T BRING IT ON!!! ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/136 "2004-12-07T15:31:42Z")
As much as I wish otherwise, **The Truth** is certainly not alone in his sentiments, and it’s enlightened me to an interesting phenomenon in our society. There are some people that are simply naturally aggressive and militaristic. They are your big talkers, ‘bring it on’ ‘we’ll kick their asses’ types. They always want to be the biggest guy (or girl) in the room- if not in physical presence, then by being the most provocative person there. To them, war is not a necessary evil…it’s sort of the 7th inning stretch during the humdrum routine of modern civilization. It helps work out the kinks, makes the remainder of the game tolerable. A fair number of these folks enlist…the rest run their mouths on internet discussion boards. Look, war is going to happen. Bad things happen in war. I think we all accept that. But the ‘rules of war’ exist for more than the protection of our enemies. I am not comfortable with giving anyone permission (explicit or implicit) to torture and dehumanize anyone if they are eventually going to rejoin the civilian population. It’s not something you can just turn on and off. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/137 "2004-12-07T20:23:50Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > A fair number of these folks enlist…the rest run their mouths on internet discussion boards. Yes, we call those folks “chickenhawks.” Or, as they say in Washington DC, “Mr. President.” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/138 "2004-12-07T20:44:32Z")
Or, as they say on talk radio, “Rush.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/139 "2004-12-08T03:51:59Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Yes, we call those folks “chickenhawks.” > > Or, as they say in Washington DC, “Mr. President.” I refer you to the points I made above. Would you call FDR a chickenhawk, **rjung**? How about Bill Clinton? I’m joining the VFW because I was involved in a conflict during his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053/140 "2004-12-08T06:05:53Z")
Bill Clinton was pushing the nation into an unnecessary war? What history books have you been reading? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-prisoner-abuse-photos-now-its-the-navys-turn/278053.md?page=8)