# New Pyramid Scheme? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532 "2002-08-06T02:37:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StephenG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/1 "2002-08-06T02:37:54Z")
While talking to a friend of mine recently I asked him how work was going. He was enthusiastic, said it was going really well, and that he and his company were actually looking for bright, ambitious people like myself. Since I’m entering my last year of university, I figured he wanted to offer me a job or somesuch. I visited him tonight, and quickly discovered what he was actually offering me. The presentation was extremely well done, and made for a tempting offer – in theory at least. But I noticed a few holes while he was talking (not big ones, and not ones which would detract from the validity of the business, but enough to make me pause), and the whole system screams “pyramid scheme”. Not that he ever used that phrase, mind you – but when he began our meeting by saying “no one’s asking you for any money now” when I thought I was attending a preliminary job interview, alarms began to go off in my head. I won’t go into the details of the presentation unless someone asks, but I’d like to know if anyone has heard of a company called “Quixtar”. Their schtick is offering wholesale price on consumer items, and they’re apparently quite succesful – if I can believe my friend. 🙂 Thoughts from the teeming millions? I thanked my friend (and friend he is, even if I don’t like his business) for his offer and told him I didn’t think it was for me, but I’d still like to hear other’s opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/2 "2002-08-06T02:41:42Z")
And for a legitimate job offer, nobody will be asking you for any money ever. I’ll go search. Have you heard of Big Planet? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/3 "2002-08-06T02:43:53Z")
That didn’t take long - it’s the reincarnated Amway. Don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/4 "2002-08-06T02:53:08Z")
It’s as pyramid as it gets. Quixtar is Amway (which should ring a few alarm bells). [http://www.getfacts.com/amway/in\_the\_news/quixtar\_online\_53099.html](http://www.getfacts.com/amway/in_the_news/quixtar_online_53099.html) [http://www.amquix.50megs.com/amway.html](http://www.amquix.50megs.com/amway.html) [http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/enteramquix.htm](http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/enteramquix.htm) [http://skepdic.com/amway.html](http://skepdic.com/amway.html) [http://www.angelfire.com/ky/xamway/ebiz.html](http://www.angelfire.com/ky/xamway/ebiz.html) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/5 "2002-08-06T04:11:35Z")
I got targeted by a Quixtar drone, too, as detailed in my wunnerful rant: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=129280](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=129280) Thanks for the links, **Mauvaise**. ---
**Author:** ![Pythagoras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@Pythagoras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythagoras)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/6 "2002-08-06T05:00:39Z")
I got hassled by some geeky pyramid scheme or something involving some sort of ISP. It had been a while since I had yelled at anybody, it felt good. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/7 "2002-08-06T12:37:17Z")
Let’s all say it together, children. When you offer me a job…the money flows **to** me. When you offer me a job…the money flows **to** me. When you offer me a job…the money flows **to** me. When you offer me a job…the money flows **to** me. Ah… ---
**Author:** ![Sivalensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Sivalensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sivalensis)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/8 "2002-08-06T13:37:09Z")
Yeah, you do apparently have to spend about $250 a month to get it to work, which I sure as hell don’t spend on my dry goods and stuff. When Quixtar was pitched to me, after about five minutes, it was explained exactly how it wasn’t a pyramid scheme…it was complex and I can’t recall and thing about it, but I think my SO understood it. So it’s all legal and all, but who the hell wants to actually go around pitching to everyone around you? Argh. ---
**Author:** ![StephenG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/9 "2002-08-06T14:41:30Z")
Wow, you guys are great – thanks! I haven’t had a chance to read the links yet (being at work and all – which is apparently a waste of time according to my friend, but it’s working pretty well for me), but I will read them later. Yeah, I couldn’t understand why anybody would be asking me for money at an interview either … made no sense. But, **JC** , if you believe their pitch, the money does flow to you… 😃 And I don’t think I spend $250/month on personal commodities either. (Food, maybe. But I don’t know if they do too much in the way of food.) And I didn’t get into a discussion of pyramid schemes… seemed clear enough to me! Oh, and I’m too young to remember Amway :), but I do remember negative connotations… ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/10 "2002-08-06T15:12:37Z")
Another pitch receiver here. One of the lines I was given was that it was “by the people who developed Amway but in a completely different way.” I was also told how much support Microsoft was throwing after it. Did some checking and Micrsoft basically provides the operating environment for the systems. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/11 "2002-08-06T15:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mullinator \* > \*\* > I was also told how much support Microsoft was throwing after it. Did some checking and Micrsoft basically provides the operating environment for the systems. \*\* From [http://www.angelfire.com/ky/xamway/xamway2.html](http://www.angelfire.com/ky/xamway/xamway2.html) > [@](#): > > Big Lie 2.- Amway forms business partnerships with successful companies like Coca Cola. > My Reply - I must admit that this staement used to impress me when I was a rabid Amway supporter. Each time the new catalogs came out, we would go thru them and be enthralled by all “the new business partners” that had joined up. It is only recently, years after I left Amway, that I was reading an anti-Amway website and I realised the truth. Most of these partnerships are nothing more than a normal business deal for Amway to sell a product, no different from millions of other distributors that sell the same items. Dozens of suppliers have stated that their relationship with Amway is only one of supplier and retailer. It is not a “Joint Venture” as is often stated. The canteen in my workplace has a Coke vending machine, - is that a business partnership or what? It is important to note that Amway usually only sells a fraction of any manufacturer’s entire product line. ---
**Author:** ![BurglarGenie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BurglarGenie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurglarGenie)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-pyramid-scheme/122532/12 "2002-08-06T17:12:29Z")
My wife and I “did” Amway when we were first married and a brother-in-law does Quixtar now (another brother-in-law “sponsored” him but got out about a month later). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sivalensis \* > \*\*When Quixtar was pitched to me, after about five minutes, it was explained exactly how it wasn’t a pyramid scheme…it was complex and I can’t recall and thing about it, but I think my SO understood it. So it’s all legal and all, but who the hell wants to actually go around pitching to everyone around you? Argh. \*\* It’s “legal” because participants (theoretically) actually have to sell products to get your commissions: We bought products at a “discount” from their “retail” price for resale (or your own personal use). These “wholesale” prices were about the same as we could get at your local retailers and we had to pay shipping, so no profit yet (just the hassle of the business). Then based on the “points” that ran through our business (points were related to the prices and category of the items, and included items sold to our “downline”\*) you receive a check (sort of a commission). The check had a note on it something to the effect of “by cashing this check you certify that you sold directly to 10 different end customers [not downline businesses] in the last month”. That stipulation was the reason the whole scheme was “legal”. When the FTC went after them once, Amway either pointed to that policy (or instituted it at that time) to show that product was what was sold (not the “right to sell”). We couldn’t sign the checks (in good conscience)\*\*. When we asked our upline about the note on the checks (they never mentioned the requirement to sell to end customers during the presentations) they told us to ignore it, but we weren’t going to lie to protect Amway. When the first BIL (who is out now) showed us Quixtar, we said no thanks. The second BIL later said he understood we weren’t interested in the “business opportunity” but let him know if we were interested in buying any of the product (no pressure). We do like some of the products (detergents, protein bars) so we did buy some through him (although not at the “retail” they list). If you buy a “membership” (not an “independent business”) you can essentially get the “wholesale” price but not commission and the “refering business” gets your points. So we get the (few) products we like at “wholesale” and my BIL gets his points. My BIL occasionally mentions the things he is going to get with the money he is making (in the future), but I figure it’s because he’s still new. B \*We never had a downline. \*\*A good consciense is probably why we didn’t last long with Amway.