# New "radiation-free" approach to controlled nuclear fusion -- could this work?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 8, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317 "2007-05-08T23:10:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/1 "2007-05-08T23:10:36Z")
It’s called [“Inertial Electrodynamic Fusion,”](http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Inertial-Electrodynamic_Fusion_Device) invented by [Robert W. Bussard.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Bussard)
> [@](#):
>
> "The fusion process recommended by Dr. Bussard takes boron-11 and fuses a proton to it, producing, in its excited state, a carbon-12 atom. This excited carbon-12 atom decays to beryllium-8 and helium-4. Beryllium-8 very quickly (in 10-13 s) decays into two more helium-4 atoms. This is the only nuclear-energy releasing process in the whole world that releases fusion energy and three helium atoms – and no neutrons. This reaction is completely radiation free.
> "[The fusion process that powers stars is enabled by the gravitational force field that draws particles directly together]. Only one other force is known to be like gravity: this is the electric field force or “coulomb” force, between electrically-charged particles.
> "Charged particles of opposite signs attract each other with direct forces; charged particles in electric fields feel forces directly along field gradients. Thus, fusion fuel plasmas could be held together efficiently by electric forces and electric fields. This is called “Electric Fusion”.
> "The basic approach of electric fusion is the following:
>
> - Quasi-spherical magnetic fields trap injected energetic electrons to form spherical negative potential well.
> - Fusion ions trapped in this spherical well focused through central region oscillate across the “core” until they are reacted.
> - The system acts like a spherical colliding beam device.
> - Fuel gas is input at the potential well edge. Fusion products escape to system walls.
> - Ion fusion power generation occurs in a central region.
> - Electron drive power is decoupled from the fusion process.
> - Power balance is set by injected electron losses; the main losses occurring through the magnetic cusps and to walls.
> - Magnetic confinement of electrons is critical.
> - “Wiffle Ball” (WB) effect insures cusp sealing.
> - Magnetic insulation of the walls is important.
> - “Magrid” (MG) effect reduces power and raises gain.
Apparently it is also known as “Inertial Electrostatic Confinement Fusion” or “IEC Fusion.” The process is explained on a YouTube video (really more of a PowerPoint presentation, it seems), [“IEC Fusion for Dummies.”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiHsSAS_SQw)
See [this](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x848625) Democratic Underground thread and links therein. Thomas Ligon will be a discussing it on [_The Space Show_](http://www.thespaceshow.com/) (radio?) tonight (5/8/07) from 7-8:30 Pacific Time – you can listen live by clicking the previous link.
Is this viable, or is it another “cold fusion” red herring?
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/2 "2007-05-09T00:02:14Z")
Or another [Orbo?](http://www.steorn.com/)
---
### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/3 "2007-05-09T01:01:35Z")
This sounds suspiciously like a [Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor) (and looking at the Wikipage I see tha they note that Bussard has done research in this area). The electrostatic fusor is no shady, pseudoscientific scam; it really does fuse deuterium, but not at levels that make it energy positive, much less get close to the Lawson criterion. It suffered from other problems as well, including erosion of the electrode grids, and scaling problems that limited the size at which it could effectively function to nothing more than a tabletop device.
Reading up on Bussard’s Polywell reactor, he’s replaced the grids with an electron plasma which is contained by powerful magnetic fields, which purportedly eliminate erosion problems and, in some manner I don’t understand, reduces the charge accumulation problems that prohibited Hirsch from scaling up his fusor.
Is this [pathological science](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science)? On one hand, Bussard is a reputable physicst with a doctorate from Princeton. He’s worked in a variety of positions in the field of nuclear propulsion and nuclear fusion, including as an assistant director at the then-Atomic Energy Commission, providing strong support for Tokamak-type magnetic confinement (though he later claimed to have supported T-mag confinement not because he believed it was the best technical approach but because it would be politically viable and would provide funds for “alternate” experiments). On the other hand:[ul][li]Bussard has, in recent years, affiliated himself with some individuals and organizations (see the International Academy of Sciences (Missouri)) that are suspect.[/li][li]Bussard has made a number of egregious calculation and conceptual errors in the past.[/li][li]The p-[sup]11[/sup]B would be essentially aneutronic–that is to say, its output would be almost exclusively charged particles, which makes it much easier to generate electricity directly–but the required temperature is an order of magnitude higher and the power density more than two and a half orders of magnitude lower than D-T reactions, making it substantially more difficult than levels that current confinement systems can achieve even for fractions of a second.[/li][li]Bussard’s estimate of efficiency and energy output is based upon detection of 3 neutrons.[/ul]I don’t think Bussard is out to scam anyone, and it’s certainly possible that he might be on to something significant, but I think the claims that it’s all working, there’s no need or value in an intermediate experimental installation, and that it’ll all be ready for production in a decade (give or take) is somewhat hyperbolic at minimum. [/li]
It would be very cool if it turned out to be a viable avenue to fusion, though. An efficient, scalable aneutronic fusion power generator would solve a lot of problems.
Stranger
---
### Author:  [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/4 "2007-05-09T01:16:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Beryllium-8 very quickly (in 10-13 s) decays into two more helium-4 atoms. This is the only nuclear-energy releasing process in the whole world that releases fusion energy and three helium atoms – and no neutrons. This reaction is completely radiation free.
Umm…helium atoms _are_ alpha radiation aren’t they? So not so much radiation free.
Also the higher the atomic number of a nuclei, the harder it is to fuse, thats why most fusion schemes involve hydrogen isotopes. If his magnetic confinement scheme was really possible, I’d think he’d start with something that fused at lower energies.
Also the “International Academy of Sciences” description of the device says that charged particles are attracted along the gradient of an electric field, which seems a kind of elementary mistake for a “Acadmey of Science”.
Don’t know enough to say more, but this is hitting my BS detector pretty hard.
---
### Author:  [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/5 "2007-05-09T14:45:37Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous]
Umm…helium atoms _are_ alpha radiation aren’t they? So not so much radiation free.
Also the higher the atomic number of a nuclei, the harder it is to fuse, thats why most fusion schemes involve hydrogen isotopes. If his magnetic confinement scheme was really possible, I’d think he’d start with something that fused at lower energies.
Also the “International Academy of Sciences” description of the device says that charged particles are attracted along the gradient of an electric field, which seems a kind of elementary mistake for a “Acadmey of Science”.
Don’t know enough to say more, but this is hitting my BS detector pretty hard.
[/QUOTE]
Helium nuclei are alpha particles; not helium atoms.
---
### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/6 "2007-05-09T14:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob]
Helium nuclei are alpha particles; not helium atoms.
[/QUOTE]
Please tell me how an atomic nucleus can decay into helium atoms without releasing an alpha particle. Even if the alphas are stopped before they hit anything meaningful, it’s not “totally radiation-free”, as per the claim.
---
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/7 "2007-05-09T15:15:06Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic]
Please tell me how an atomic nucleus can decay into helium atoms without releasing an alpha particle. Even if the alphas are stopped before they hit anything meaningful, it’s not “totally radiation-free”, as per the claim.
[/QUOTE]
And unless ALL the energy of the reaction goes into the kinetic energy of the particles, then it emits gamma as well.
I think what they really meant was “generates no radioactive waste”, not even neutron-activated reactor machinery.
---
### Author:  [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/8 "2007-05-09T15:18:29Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob]
Helium nuclei are alpha particles; not helium atoms.
[/QUOTE]
Err, fair enough, but then thats another error in the article. Beryllium-8 decays into alpha particles, not He atoms (aren’t all decay products ionized due to the energies involved?)
---
### Author:  [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/9 "2007-05-09T15:19:55Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic]
Please tell me how an atomic nucleus can decay into helium atoms without releasing an alpha particle. Even if the alphas are stopped before they hit anything meaningful, it’s not “totally radiation-free”, as per the claim.
[/QUOTE]
You are correct that the reaction releases alpha particle radiation. The reaction itself is not truly radiation-free, and I don’t think it’s been claimed as such. It is neutron-free however, which means that the walls of the fusion chamber don’t become radioactive over time like they will with deuterium/tritium fusion. The moment the fusion reaction is switched off the radiation emitted will go to zero. That’s what’s meant by radiation-free.
Releasing most of its energy as alpha particles is actually a good thing. Not only are alpha particles remarkably easy to shield, it’s actually possible to convert the energy in a fast charged particle directly into electric power. If a sustained H-B11 fusion reaction ca be maintained it should be possible to tap an electric current straight off the shielding walls, without any of the intermediate steps of boiling water into steam and using a turbine to power a generator that would otherwise be needed.
---
### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/10 "2007-05-09T17:09:49Z")
The p-[sup]11[/sup]B reaction only releases alpha particles (helium nuclei) with a combined kinetic energy of 8.7MeV. As **AndrewL** notes, this is actually advantageous, since you can use the moving charged particles directly to generate electricity rather than having to capture them in a fluid medium and use the resulting temperature (and possibly phase) change to drive a boiler and dynamo, with all the corresponding losses and material limitations of a heat engine. Alpha particles, even highly energetic ones, are readily shielded by even a very modest amount of shielding, so the concerns about neutron radiation, which can transmute elements into radioactive isotopes and damage structural materials in a fundamental way (as well as pose a grave risk to living creatures), are reduced. (There is one branch of the p-[sup]11[/sup]B reaction that produces a neutron, but it’s very unlikely, only occuring less than 0.1% of all reactions.)
Stranger
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/11 "2007-05-09T17:23:44Z")
[QUOTE=AndrewL]
Releasing most of its energy as alpha particles is actually a good thing. Not only are alpha particles remarkably easy to shield, it’s actually possible to convert the energy in a fast charged particle directly into electric power. If a sustained H-B11 fusion reaction ca be maintained it should be possible to tap an electric current straight off the shielding walls, without any of the intermediate steps of boiling water into steam and using a turbine to power a generator that would otherwise be needed.
[/QUOTE]
Whaddaya know! Mister Fusion! 🙂
(Assuming, you know, you could scale the thing down to food-processor size . . . and safely trust consumers with individual units . . .)
---
### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/12 "2007-05-09T18:01:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The p-11B reaction only releases alpha particles (helium nuclei) with a combined kinetic energy of 8.7MeV. As AndrewL notes, this is actually advantageous, since you can use the moving charged particles directly to generate electricity rather than having to capture them in a fluid medium and use the resulting temperature (and possibly phase) change to drive a boiler and dynamo, with all the corresponding losses and material limitations of a heat engine.
This is, arguably, the coolest part of this possibility. You cannot imagine how bummed out I was, as a kid, to learn that nuclear power plants worked by heating water (or other substance), rather than some more direct method of generating electricity.
---
### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/13 "2007-05-09T23:54:21Z")
Dr. Bussard, as in, ‘Bussard Ramjet’, is one of the geniuses in fusion. He does not talk bullshit. He works his tail off. He may be wrong, his path may turn out to be not as promising as theory, but he is not anything like Orbo.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/14 "2007-05-10T00:17:49Z")
According to [this,](http://pesn.com/2007/05/09/9500470_Electric_Fusion/) the technology has been in federal-funding limbo for two decades for lack of potential as a nuclear weapon.
Which is rather reassuring, actually.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/15 "2007-05-10T00:19:55Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath]
Dr. Bussard, as in, ‘Bussard Ramjet’, is one of the geniuses in fusion.
[/QUOTE]
[You’re right](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard) . . . I never made that connection. Wonder if “IEC fusion” has any application as a space drive?
---
### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2007, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/16 "2007-05-10T02:58:57Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
[You’re right](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard) . . . I never made that connection. Wonder if “IEC fusion” has any application as a space drive?
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t exactly wave around the Bussard ramjet as proof of the genius of its progenitor. There are numerous problems with the fusion ramjet rocket concept, not the least of which is that for any even vaguely realistic exhaust velocity and specific impulse the ramjet sees more drag than thrust. There’s also the difficulty of p-p fusion, espcially with the sparse amount of fuel a field even ten thousand kilometers wide could collect. And never mind that you’ve have to tow any lifesystem well behind and presumably off to the side of the propulsion system to protect the crew from the intense magnetic fields.
However, a compact fusion source would go quite a way to making an interplanetary propulsion system viable, either via direct propulsion or (more likely) some method of ion propulsion.
Stranger
---
### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-radiation-free-approach-to-controlled-nuclear-fusion-could-this-work/403317/17 "2007-05-10T03:02:37Z")
[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606)
Watch this. It’s really interesting.