# New reality TV show - Men unknowingly date drag queen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295 "2004-05-03T16:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/61 "2004-05-05T17:37:59Z")
> [@lumpy](#): > > Here’s a scenerio for you: A lesbian woman goes to a lesbian bar, hooks up with a gorgeous sexy woman, and takes her back to her apartment. When they get there and get to the steamy part, she finds out her date is really a straight man in drag, hoping that he could seduce her if he just got her aroused enough. Anyone think this would be the least bit risque or clever? No, most people would think she had the right to castrate him then and there. > [@KellyM](#): > > Transsexuals shouldn’t have to put up with it, and I refuse to hold any transsexual (pre or post op) who defers disclosure until “third base” culpable in any way until such time as open disclosure at an earlier time doesn’t risk a potentially deadly reaction. > (and) > Ew. I’ve run into a few of those perverts. It is an experience I should not care to repeat. Um, wow. [The Best of the Best Lesbian Erotica](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573441058/qid=1083777557/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-6498503-1463031?v=glance&s=books) has a story that details just such an experience that **Lumpy** describes, only the woman is aware at the start that it’s a pre-op drag queen, and has an affirming and positive experience that examines what it means to be female. Also in the anthology is a more depressing, but ultimately affirming story about a lesbian and a FtM. I bought it, so put me in your non-castrating group. I’ve known several transgendered/transsexual people, immediate disclosure has always been part of the deal, and it has hampered, but not deadened, their ability to date, have sex, and form relationships. My friends are mostly pre-op, not post-op, but not being fully open with someone right away seems like a very bad way to start a relationship. Why would someone be a pervert if they want someone with diverse plumbing, or ambiguous or androgynous sexuality? I think what Daniel is trying to say (and if I’m way off, my apologies) is that while identifying as a full/true female or male is **very important** to the person who has transitioned, it may be less important, as a selection tool, to the sexual partner, for whatever reason. Maybe the two don’t mesh because their priorities and expectations differ, but geez, that’s no reason for close-mindedness and condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/62 "2004-05-05T18:00:20Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > I’ve known several transgendered/transsexual people, immediate disclosure has always been part of the deal, and it has hampered, but not deadened, their ability to date, have sex, and form relationships. What about the transsexuals that you don’t read? Are you telling me that your transdar is 100% accurate? Sure, I’ll agree that 100% of transsexuals who practice immediate disclosure practice immediate disclosure. But that’s kinda tautological, now, isn’t it? You wouldn’t know about the ones that are stealth, because you’re not going to be disclosed to (stealths only disclose anonymously or in safe spaces) and a lot of them pass so well that you’d never guess it on your own. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/63 "2004-05-05T19:29:45Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > But that’s not what you’re defending. You seem to be defending the position that because some people have such hangups, all transsexuals should disclose their status early so as to protect people who have such hangups. And I don’t think that’s defensible. Nope–I’m defending the idea that people should be honest with one another in the courting process about things the other person is likely to find important. > [@](#): > > You tried a while back to compare the obligation of disclosure for a transsexual with that borne by those who are herpes-positive. That’s actually a pretty insulting comparison. Perhaps if you go back and read that you’ll notice a parenthetical comment; I thought that was strong enough. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/64 "2004-05-05T19:36:21Z")
Out of curiosity, what makes a man who is attracted to transsexuals “creepy” or a “pervert”? Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t see how having a pro-transsexual inclination is in itself a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/65 "2004-05-05T19:38:40Z")
Actually, let me state that more strongly: your misrepresentation of what I said pisses me off, **Kelly**. I said: > [@](#): > > Recognizing that het transsexuals are in a difficult position when dating, vaguely akin to the herpes-positive folks (vaguely, I say, vaguely!), I guess I can see how a little bit of reticence would be the best strategy. I did NOT say that they have the same “obligation of disclosure.” I said they faced vaguely similar difficulties. Since you need me to spell it out for you: transsexuals sometimes find that potential dates are scared off by finding out about their transsexuality. Herpes-positive folks sometimes find that potential dates are scared off by finding out about their herpes status. VAGUELY, I said. VAGUELY akin. I did NOT mention anything about an obligation of disclosure there. In fact, I said I could understand how a little bit of reiticence would be the best strategy. You may be looking to be insulted, but I’m not going to oblige you. You may apologize or not, as you see fit, for the misrepresentation. Honesty remains important to me. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/66 "2004-05-05T19:57:37Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Out of curiosity, what makes a man who is attracted to transsexuals “creepy” or a “pervert”? Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t see how having a pro-transsexual inclination is in itself a bad thing. I, too, would like to know why men (or women, I guess) who are solely attracted to transsexuals are perverts. Or _perverts_. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/67 "2004-05-05T20:30:33Z")
I think I can understand that. Are you Latina, **juanita**? If so, would you want to go to a Web site for white guys looking to date Latina women? It does seem creepy somehow, like the folks there are wanting to date a fetish and not a person. Which there’s nothing wrong with, but I wouldn’t want to be their date. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/68 "2004-05-05T20:43:34Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > I, too, would like to know why men (or women, I guess) who are solely attracted to transsexuals are perverts. Or _perverts_. I’m sure that there are plenty of people who specifically want to date transsexuals who are not perverts. It’s just been my experience that the vast majority of them are, in fact, perverts. This is an empirical observation, not a conclusion from first principles. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/69 "2004-05-05T20:44:52Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I think I can understand that. Are you Latina, **juanita**? If so, would you want to go to a Web site for white guys looking to date Latina women? **Juanita** ’s black, so I think she would probably strike out at that site. > [@](#): > > It does seem creepy somehow, like the folks there are wanting to date a fetish and not a person. Which there’s nothing wrong with, but I wouldn’t want to be their date. I can certainly see that it would be off-putting if your race or your transgender status is the only aspect of one’s persona a potential suitor found appealing. OTOH, is it wrong to find TG folks more attractive in general. I find muscle fetishists to be creepy, but if I were single, I’d want a potential mate to be interested in my physicality. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/70 "2004-05-05T20:57:46Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > **Juanita** ’s black, so I think she would probably strike out at that site. D’oh! But the same idea applies, I think: a site for white guys interested in dating black women would be a little weird. (I’m a paleskin redhead, and I’d be ooged out by a site for folks wanting to date a redhead). At any rate, what **Kelly** says about empirical observation makes complete sense. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/71 "2004-05-06T02:44:12Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > I, too, would like to know why men (or women, I guess) who are solely attracted to transsexuals are perverts. Or _perverts_. Um … what’s the difference between “perverts” and “_perverts_”? ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/72 "2004-05-06T03:52:48Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Um … what’s the difference between “perverts” and “_perverts_”? The latter group have shorter legs on one side, so they lean a little. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/73 "2004-05-06T13:28:25Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Worse, man. > > **DIET** Vanilla Pepsi, as I recall. Diet Vanilla Pepsi is _not_ that bad. There’s no way I can excuse this hijack by claiming it’s analogous to a misunderstood, transgendered cola, but really, it’s quite good as diet colas go. Especially with at outdoor barbecues where they’re roasting a big 'ol hog. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/74 "2004-05-06T14:16:12Z")
Can we please close this thread? The OP was answered, like, 100 posts ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295/75 "2004-05-06T14:40:39Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > If you just weren’t attracted to transsexuals, then you’d go “Gee, she’s good looking. Why am I not attracted to her?” That’s not what happens. BTDT…that was even before I knew she was a mtf post-op. Of course, that’s out of a grand total of 1 known mtf I’ve ever known of, so I can’t say _all_ good-looking postops are unattractive. oh wait, you weren’t talking to me… 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reality-tv-show-men-unknowingly-date-drag-queen/243295.md?page=3)