# New reference on "86" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 6, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592 "2009-05-06T21:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592/1 "2009-05-06T21:43:00Z")
Just wanted to mention that my wife hit another cite for “86” and a number of other period restaurant codes, in a book called “America Eats”. It’s a recently published book, taken from the raw material for an unfinished WPA project. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592/2 "2009-05-07T02:36:27Z")
John, I’m not sure if I’ve ever posted it, but the earliest we’ve currently found for the term “eight-six” (86) is a Walter Winchell column from 1933, found by Barry Popik. It was soda jerker slang for “out of that item.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592/3 "2009-05-07T03:22:06Z")
It came up in a thread some years ago. But _America Eats_ is the result of more or less academic field research, rather than mere newspaper reportage, so it’s got a bit more weight. It also apparently has more code numbers cited than the Winchell. (This was in the big NYC library, and I only had a few seconds to look at it before we left, so I can’t provide much more.) ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592/4 "2009-05-07T17:47:33Z")
IIRC, as a kid I was told it was a thing you do inside, like taking off your hat, and that you re-button it when you leave a building. Some other adults in the conversation said it was more akin to a relaxed posture, like loosening your tie after work - you unbutton the bottom button because it’s more comfortable. Along the “nuts and bolts” reason, I also recall that if your vest is snug (but not “tight” as in you can’t sit down) before a meal, it will be very tight after a meal. So, sometime during the meal, you unbutton the bottom button to make some room. Finally, I think it might be something you’d do if you’d put on a few pounds since the last time you wore the vest, and you can’t button the lowest button 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592/5 "2009-05-07T17:53:37Z")
[http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-eig1.htm](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-eig1.htm) Quinion who is usually as responsible as we can find, states > [@](#): > > it does seem that eighty-six was first used in restaurants and bars, either in the late 1920s or in the early 1930s; the first firmly attested source is in the journal American Speech for February 1936; another example may be from the mid 1920s — ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-reference-on-86/495592/6 "2009-05-07T23:33:51Z")
> [@janeslogin](#): > > [http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-eig1.htm](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-eig1.htm) Quinion who is usually as responsible as we can find, states > [@](#): > > Quote: > it does seem that eighty-six was first used in restaurants and bars, either in the late 1920s or in the early 1930s; the first firmly attested source is in the journal American Speech for February 1936; another example may be from the mid 1920s — Michael is indeed one of the best out there. Barry Popik’s find of 1933 is the earliest. The mid-20s possible example is from a source that can only be said to be dated between 1926-1935, and the meaning isn’t exactly clear.