# New rule: shut the fuck up about Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125 "2005-05-16T20:29:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/141 "2005-05-17T20:59:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Bricker, duffer and Shodan are gay? Man, the homosexual mafia is everywhere! Who told? Was it **gobear**? He’s a liar! You can’t believe him! And I was really drunk at the time! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/142 "2005-05-17T21:16:57Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Earlier in this thread, I partially defended rjung, and partially said he was “bush-bashing” too much. Now that I look over his posts more, I see that for one thing, the person who’s threads he was posting on is not the nicest of people, and furthermore, there is no such thing as **“too much bush-bashing!”** You say “person” in the singular (btw: the possessive form of “who” is “whose”) like he’s only ever done that in one person’s thread. Most emphatically not the case. Hey, I got nothin’ against Bush-bashing. I’m one of the few folks here who’ll admit to liking Michael Moore’s films. Problem is that some of us, at least, have a few interests outside of Bush, so we’re not interested in having “What’s your favorite color?” turned into pointless screaming. I mean, you think **duffer** or **Reeder** ’s ever gonna change their mind? Shrill screaming is something that ought to be confined - it’s fine for those who like it, but those of us who don’t should be able to escape it. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/143 "2005-05-17T21:17:47Z")
Googling for msm mainstream media produces 1,770,000 hits. Googling for msm men sex produces 981,000 hits. Huh. I would’ve guessed men who have sex with men, too. With that interpretation, a lot of hits for just “msm” become much funnier, if you’re as occasionally-juvenile as I am. Witness “MSM is being touted as a magic bullet for treating arthritis pain”. Heh heh heh… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/144 "2005-05-17T21:23:17Z")
I thought it stood for monosodium mutamate, the secret ingredient in Wolverine’s lo mein. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/145 "2005-05-17T21:29:52Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > Googling for > msm mainstream media > produces 1,770,000 hits. > > Googling for > msm men sex > produces 981,000 hits. > > Huh. I would’ve guessed men who have sex with men, too. > > With that interpretation, a lot of hits for just “msm” become much funnier, if you’re as occasionally-juvenile as I am. Witness “MSM is being touted as a magic bullet for treating arthritis pain”. Heh heh heh… I suspect “mainstream media” may appear in pages that aren’t actually using MSM as an acronym for that, though. More than “men sex” at least. For instance, someone could be writing about how the mainstream media depict MSMs. Either way, writing in acronyms is RFA. You ain’t twelve, this ain’t AOL, if you’re in a text medium you can suck it up and actually write some fucking text. **R** eally **F** ucking **A** nnoying ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/146 "2005-05-17T21:54:51Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Either way, writing in acronyms is RFA. You ain’t twelve, this ain’t AOL, if you’re in a text medium you can suck it up and actually write some fucking text. AFAICT you’d fit right in with [AAAA](http://www.galactic-guide.com/articles/2S62.html). TTFN ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/147 "2005-05-17T22:09:49Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > Googling for > msm mainstream media > produces 1,770,000 hits. > > Googling for > msm men sex > produces 981,000 hits. This is the internet. Googling for msm men sex moose produces 37,500 hits. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/148 "2005-05-17T23:15:08Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Sorry, **Harborwolf** , but God has told me that you’re a wanker. Typical, I go to work for eight measily hours and god starts talking smack about me. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/149 "2005-05-17T23:30:18Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > International Law. The UN. The USA, a member of the latter and a signatory of treaties promising to obey the former. > > Bet you can figure out the rest. Yea I can, can you? The idea that being a member of the UN supersedes the sovereignty of a nation is a popular one amongst the far left, unfortunately for them it’s just not true. > [@RedFury](#): > > Because you have the biggest guns. Might makes right, didn’t ya know? Ohhh, yes, the U.S. never gets criticized in any international forum because it has the biggest guns. :rolleyes: Do they have shock treatments on whatever planet you’re from? I suggest you look into some. > [@RedFury](#): > > Because, had your Gov chosen to abide by its promises, most of those people would be alive today. Or they might be just as dead at Sadaam’s hands, he was killing people at a much faster clip that the casualties that have resulted from the war in Iraq. But hey, don’t let facts stand in the way of your indignant frothing, where’s the fun in that? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/150 "2005-05-18T01:16:03Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It also looked like attempted humor to me, but I thought the timing was off, the humor was strained, and the probability of cross-posted sniping was too high at this time. > > [GD Moderator] I would like to point out that it wasn’t long ago that I was bitch-slapped by a Mod for doing pretty much exactly the same thing. Would it have been acceptable if I had used a smiley? In my mind, no. I knew exactly what I was doing, and after all these years I’m pretty sure that **rjung** knew it as well. I think that what **rjung** does is typical of why every discussion seems to lead to Bush around here, but in this case I think he was on the mark. I was soliciting opinions, and one opinion I was looking for was how the Bush “missile shield” would affect the balance of MAD. SO it’s no big deal in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/151 "2005-05-18T01:28:48Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I was soliciting opinions, and one opinion I was looking for was how the Bush “missile shield” would affect the balance of MAD. The Bush missile shield will lead to the fall of the outer space treaty and the construction of low earth orbit nuclear platforms by the US, China, and probably Russia. NO missile shield can be built to protect from a short range system that shoots straight down like that. We’ll all be forced to try to maintain MAD by implementing ‘launch on warning’. Someone will fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/152 "2005-05-18T02:12:31Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > The great thing about pronouns is their ambiguity. I believe you’ll find that they–being Men who have Sex with Men–comprise a group that does not include **Bricker, Duffer** , or **Shodan**. Though I could be mistaken. > > Daniel I admit to finding Wilson Jermiane Heredia ultra-hot when I saw him in _Rent_ in 1996. But apart from that… no. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/153 "2005-05-18T03:20:37Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yea I can, can you? The idea that being a member of the UN supersedes the sovereignty of a nation is a popular one amongst the far left, unfortunately for them it’s just not true. “Far Left”? If that means slightly right of Ghengis Khan, we’re agreed. Meanwhile, what does your own Constitution say about international treaties? > [@](#): > > This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and\*\* all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land\*\*; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. (my bolding) But sure, no doubt the US Gov can find lawyers (and sycophants such as yourself) to weasel out of just about anything. Like the illegal war that occupies us here. > [@](#): > > Ohhh, yes, the U.S. never gets criticized in any international forum because it has the biggest guns. :rolleyes: Do they have shock treatments on whatever planet you’re from? I suggest you look into some. I’ll go for the shock treatments just as soon as you pull out all those teeth your knees have impaled into what passes for a brain. Fact is, short of going to war against the US, there was precious little anyone could do to stop the illegal invasion of Iraq. Lord knows we tried [peacefully](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/15/sprj.irq.protests.main/) and [legally.](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/24/world/main537788.shtml) Then again, I’m sure that means nothing to people such as yourself. ::::shrug:::: Blowback’s a bitch. [Poll reveals world anger at Bush](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/viewsofamerica/story/0,15221,1327568,00.html) > [@](#): > > Or they might be just as dead at Sadaam’s hands, he was killing people at a much faster clip that the casualties that have resulted from the war in Iraq. But hey, don’t let facts stand in the way of your indignant frothing, where’s the fun in that? Bullfuckingshit. Unadulterated one at that. Put up or shut the fuck up, cumstain. Fact is, Saddam’s worst criminal actions came under the aegis of the US. and nothing he’d done since compairs to the current carnage in Iraq – courtesy, once again, of the US of A. Try this for a hypothetical – if it’s not too taxing for you: Your company assigns you (along with your inmediate family) to work in Baghdad, which period would you chose to live there assuming security was a priority? 1993-2002 or now? QED. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/154 "2005-05-18T03:25:08Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Or they might be just as dead at Sadaam’s hands, he was killing people at a much faster clip that the casualties that have resulted from the war in Iraq. But hey, don’t let facts stand in the way of your indignant frothing, where’s the fun in that? Speaking of not letting facts get in the way of our frothing, your claim is bullshit. Hussein had clearly killed far more people–Iranians, Iraqis, and others–than have died in this war, but his large-scale murder programs took place years ago during the Iran-Iraq war, and the suppression of the Kurds and the suppression of the southern Shi’ite insurrection that GHWB promoted and failed to support immediately after the first Gulf War. Even ascribing to him deaths due to infrastructure failure as Hussein manipulated the Oil for Food program, the daily deaths in Iraq in the few years prior to our invasion were far lower than the daily deaths inflicted since we wandered into the country. A claim that “he was killing” (implying large scale active murders in the late 1990s and early 2000s) is simply false. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/155 "2005-05-18T03:33:29Z")
You do realize that the Busheviks do not let facts get in their way don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/156 "2005-05-18T03:50:34Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > You do realize that the Busheviks do not let facts get in their way don’t you? :rolleyes: Sweetpea, you ain’t so bright, are ya? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/157 "2005-05-18T04:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > You do realize that the Busheviks do not let facts get in their way don’t you? However, even on issues about which I hold rather passionate opinions (supported, I hope, by facts), I find it more suitable to express my opinions regarding the issues than to paint broad-brush generalizations about persons who hold contrary opinions. In this way I do not fall into the error of assuming that because persons A and B each hold opinion X, that they must also jointly hold opinion Y (which they may not) or that because person A holds opinion X and happens to be a fool, then person B must be a fool for holding a similar postion–a point which would need to be proven separately. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/158 "2005-05-18T05:16:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > A claim that “he was killing” (implying large scale active murders in the late 1990s and early 2000s) is simply false. The number I’ve always heard (apart from those murdered every day for political reasons and/or to create intimidation) was around 2,000 a month, largely due to the Oil For Food program you mention. Further, the entire population lived in fear of having either loved ones or themselves spirited away in the middle of the night only to return later in the form of small pieces in trash bags…provided of course that they weren’t shoved feet-first into flaming stoves or wood chippers, thereby leaving nothing to put into trash bags. People died regularly at the hand of Hussein and his sons and his henchmen, and although Hussein clearly didn’t maintain the kill rate that existed at the time he sent hundreds of thousands of his population to die needlessly in the Iran war, or the time he killed tens of thousands in retribution for rising up after GW1, he still murdered thousands of his countrymen at a rapid clip and he could have - and probably would have - murdered many more any time he saw fit. His population was terrorized and Hussein was responsible for over a million Iraqi deaths during his reign. The fact that the majority of them occured years ago only shows that thanks to sanctions that never would have occurred if not for the U.S., he was not at war. He was every bit as murderous and as uncaring for human life as he ever. Furthermore, his killing (and that of his sons) would have continued for decades. People are not dying at the same rate now as when the war began, and they will continue to die less and less as time goes by. IMO, at least tens of thousands of Iraqis will be alive ten years from now (at the _very_ least) than would have lived had Hussein and/or his sons maintained power. I’m afraid I’m gonna have to ask for a cite for your claim that **Weirddave’s** claim is false (or “bullshit” as you uncharacteristically said at the beginning of your post). ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/159 "2005-05-18T05:22:49Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Even ascribing to him deaths due to infrastructure failure as Hussein manipulated the Oil for Food program, the daily deaths in Iraq in the few years prior to our invasion were far lower than the daily deaths inflicted since we wandered into the country. Almost needless to say, I agree with your post. Just wanted to highlight the latest dirt, unintentionally brought up by Sen Norm Coleman, in his haste to implicate any number of prominent members of the anti-war movement in the Oil for Food scandal – culminating in yesterday’s brilliant appearance by British parliamentarian George Galloway in front of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. Some choice quotes from same: > [@Galloway](#): > > Now, Senator, I gave my heart and soul to oppose the policy that you promoted. I gave my political life’s blood to try to stop the mass killing of Iraqis by the sanctions on Iraq which killed one million Iraqis, most of them children, most of them died before they even knew that they were Iraqis, but they died for no other reason other than that they were Iraqis with the misfortune to born at that time. I gave my heart and soul to stop you committing the disaster that you did commit in invading Iraq. And I told the world that your case for the war was a pack of lies > > \ > > I told the world that Iraq, contrary to your claims did not have weapons of mass destruction. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to al-Qaeda. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11 2001. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that the Iraqi people would resist a British and American invasion of their country and that the fall of Baghdad would not be the beginning of the end, but merely the end of the beginning. > > **Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong and 100,000 people paid with their lives; 1600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies; 15,000 of them wounded, many of them disabled forever on a pack of lies**. > > If the world had listened to Kofi Annan, whose dismissal you demanded, if the world had listened to President Chirac, who you want to paint as some kind of corrupt traitor, if the world had listened to me and the anti-war movement in Britain, we would not be in the disaster that we are in today. Senator, this is the mother of all smokescreens. You are trying to divert attention from the crimes that you supported, from the theft of billions of dollars of Iraq’s wealth (bolding mine) And the kicker: > [@](#): > > \*\*Have a look at the 14 months you were in charge of Baghdad, the first 14 months when $8.8 billion of Iraq’s wealth went missing on your watch. Have a look at Haliburton and other American corporations that stole not only Iraq’s money, but the money of the American taxpayer. > > Have a look at the oil that you didn’t even meter, that you were shipping out of the country and selling, the proceeds of which went who knows where. Have a look at the $800 million you gave to American military commanders to hand out around the country without even counting it or weighing it. Have a look at the real scandal breaking in the newspapers today, revealed in the earlier testimony in this committee. That the biggest sanctions busters were not me or Russian politicians or French politicians. The real sanctions busters were your own companies with the connivance of your own Government\*\* The sheer ineptness that led to this whole clusterfuck would be almost amusing if, in reality, it wasn’t so terribly sad. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125/160 "2005-05-18T05:52:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who told? Was it **gobear**? > > He’s a liar! You can’t believe him! > > And I was really drunk at the time! > > Regards, > Shodan Damnit, I knew everyone would find out! That is the _last_ time I trust the two of you. In my defense, the occasional heated exchanges between **SolGrundy** and **gobear** are undeniable turn-ons. Of course, being a conservative and judging from the board’s left-winger view of us I guess I have to go kick my own ass now. The self-loathing is almost unbearable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rule-shut-the-fuck-up-about-bush/304125.md?page=9)