# New sexual assault allegation against Justice Kavanaugh **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241 "2019-09-15T01:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/1 "2019-09-15T01:28:56Z")
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/sunday-review/brett-kavanaugh-deborah-ramirez-yale.html?auth=login-email&login=email](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/sunday-review/brett-kavanaugh-deborah-ramirez-yale.html?auth=login-email&login=email) (paywall) > **[New Sexual Assault Allegation Against Brett Kavanaugh | Law & Crime](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/male-student-tells-nyt-about-brand-new-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-brett-kavanaugh/)** > > A brand new sexual misconduct allegation has been leveled against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. > [@](#): > > We also uncovered a previously unreported story about Mr. Kavanaugh in his freshman year that echoes Ms. Ramirez’s allegation. A classmate, Max Stier, saw Mr. Kavanaugh with his pants down at a different drunken dorm party, where friends pushed his penis into the hand of a female student. Mr. Stier, who runs a nonprofit organization in Washington, notified senators and the F.B.I. about this account, but the F.B.I. did not investigate and Mr. Stier has declined to discuss it publicly. (We corroborated the story with two officials who have communicated with Mr. Stier.) Is this a surprise to anyone? Still okay with him on the SCOTUS? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/2 "2019-09-15T01:33:45Z")
Further: > [@](#): > > Ms. Ramirez’s legal team gave the F.B.I. a list of at least 25 individuals who may have had corroborating evidence. But the bureau — in its supplemental background investigation — interviewed none of them, though we learned many of these potential witnesses tried in vain to reach the F.B.I. on their own. There wasn’t a serious investigation before. The GOP Senators valued protecting their nominee over determining whether or not he might have been an abuser of women. That should be obvious to anyone paying attention who isn’t blinded by partisan goggles. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/3 "2019-09-15T01:35:28Z")
He’s got his lifetime appointment. There is no way that anyone who supported his nomination is going to change their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/4 "2019-09-15T01:36:10Z")
Off to the Pit from Elections. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/5 "2019-09-15T01:38:21Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > He’s got his lifetime appointment. There is no way that anyone who supported his nomination is going to change their mind. Here’s a way – more investigations, resulting in more victims coming forward. Who knows how many women and girls he abused, and are staying silent because of how horribly the other accusers have been treated, and how listless our government is in preventing the elevation of abusers? If there are more and more – handfuls, dozens, etc. – I think there’s a decent chance he’d resign. But it’s more important than just politics – it’s about striking terror into the hearts of abusers everywhere. Abusers of women and girls should be terrified, and every decent public official should make terrorizing abusers one of the highest priorities. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/6 "2019-09-15T01:38:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Further: > There wasn’t a serious investigation before. The GOP Senators valued protecting their nominee over determining whether or not he might have been an abuser of women. That should be obvious to anyone paying attention who isn’t blinded by partisan goggles. Question: is this the FBI’s job? Let’s suppose that they determined that, due to the length of time and the unreliable testimony of the witnesses and statutes of limitations, that a successful prosecution was basically impossible. (not to mention it’s \*really \*hard to prosecute a judge who’s also a lawyer who’s also well connected who also has means) So anything the FBI discovered was not going to lead to a prosecution, merely call into question the character of judge Kavanaugh. Is this then an appropriate use of FBI resources? (and note I’m not defending him. Most likely he basically did what he’s accused of…like many other men of that era…) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/7 "2019-09-15T01:41:01Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Question: is this the FBI’s job? Let’s suppose that they determined that, due to the length of time and the unreliable testimony of the witnesses and statutes of limitations, that a successful prosecution was basically impossible. (not to mention it’s \*really \*hard to prosecute a judge who’s also a lawyer who’s also well connected who also has means) > > So anything the FBI discovered was not going to lead to a prosecution, merely call into question the character of judge Kavanaugh. Is this then an appropriate use of FBI resources? > > (and note I’m not defending him. Most likely he basically did what he’s accused of…like many other men of that era…) That was certainly within their purview, which was to provide information to the Senate that would be useful in determining whether he should be elevated to the SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/8 "2019-09-15T01:41:58Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Off to the Pit from Elections. > > [/moderating] I decided to move this after the tone of the 2nd post, but then I see that was edited. I think this can live in Elections so I’ll move it back. Nothing to see here. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/9 "2019-09-15T01:43:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I decided to move this after the tone of the 2nd post, but then I see that was edited. I think this can live in Elections so I’ll move it back. Nothing to see here. > > [/moderating] Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/10 "2019-09-15T02:22:11Z")
This does not surprise me at all but for what it’s worth I don’t think this accusation will go any further than the others. Kavanaugh, like Trump, has reached a position where he is immune to prosecution because of the perception that it is politically motivated. It would not matter if there was video of him doing it, bragging that he was doing it and citing a law textbook for the exact statute he was breaking in that moment. His party will simply dismiss it as partisan fake news and will demonize Bill Clinton in response. The real justice may be long in coming but Kavanaugh will have to face it eventually. He has two daughters. Because of the world we live in, those daughters will at some point in their lives end up in a situation where a man is demanding something sexual of them that they are not prepared to give. And they will go back to their dad thinking that he will get justice for them… And Brett Kavanaugh will have to look at someone who raped his daughter and he’ll have to check their political affiliation to see if that person is an up and coming Republican. And if the answer to that question is yes, he’s going to have to tell his own daughter to stop being a slut because look what you made the decent, honest man do to you and look at how you almost ruined his career with your whoring. While I expect the blatant hypocrisy to cause him no more than a moment of dismay, his daughters will hopefully realize what a scumbag their father is and will appropriately disown him. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/11 "2019-09-15T02:33:08Z")
It’s too late. Not that it would be actionable when it happened, nor if it happened today. And yes, he is on the Court now. Am I okay with him on the Supreme Court? If one of my senators, Dianne Feinstien, had not sat on an allegation she had heard, we would hopefully have someone better in his place. Fellow California voters, still okay with DiFi in the Senate? The lesson you should be spouting is “Report criminal action ASAP!”, not years later, and definitely not repeating the meme that victims should be “terrified” to report. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/12 "2019-09-15T03:04:01Z")
He doesn’t belong on the Supreme Court anyway. He doesn’t have the intellect, he’s a political hack who was appointed as a judge as a reward for aiding Ken Starr in his Clinton fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/13 "2019-09-15T03:55:40Z")
Not surprised. Agree he’s a partisan hack. I have zero confidence he will ever suffer any consequences. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/14 "2019-09-15T05:52:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/sunday-review/brett-kavanaugh-deborah-ramirez-yale.html?auth=login-email&login=email](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/sunday-review/brett-kavanaugh-deborah-ramirez-yale.html?auth=login-email&login=email) (paywall) > > [New Sexual Assault Allegation Against Brett Kavanaugh | Law & Crime](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/male-student-tells-nyt-about-brand-new-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-brett-kavanaugh/) > > Is this a surprise to anyone? Still okay with him on the SCOTUS? Your title calls it a “sexual assault allegation”. The article you quote calls it just a “story”, and it’s not clear to me, even if the story were true, whether Kavanaugh’s role is that of an assaulter or a victim. Yes, I’m still good with him on SCOTUS. > [@"Ginsburg](#): > > I can say that my two newest colleagues are very decent and very smart individuals. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/15 "2019-09-15T07:00:58Z")
Some guys pushed his penis into some lady’s face and…that’s on him? :dubious::smack: ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/16 "2019-09-15T07:14:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your title calls it a “sexual assault allegation”. The article you quote calls it just a “story”, and it’s not clear to me, even if the story were true, whether Kavanaugh’s role is that of an assaulter or a victim. > > Yes, I’m still good with him on SCOTUS. First sentence of the article iiandyiiii quoted: > [@](#): > > A brand new sexual misconduct \*\*allegation \*\*has been leveled against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. (Bolding mine, of course.) An allegation inevitably includes an account of the incident–in other words, the story–on which the allegation is based. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/17 "2019-09-15T07:31:26Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > First sentence of the article iiandyiiii quoted: > > (Bolding mine, of course.) > > An allegation inevitably includes an account of the incident–in other words, the story–on which the allegation is based. He decided his viewpoint just after reading the R. That is the only letter that matters in the story. Of course he didn’t read anything else. He might find out stuff he doesn’t like. The people who support Trump because of the judges will go to amazing lengths to avoid cognitive dissonance when they suspect those are scum as well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/18 "2019-09-15T10:18:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, I’m still good with him on SCOTUS. My question is really aimed at people who actually think sexual assault and rape are terrible things that society should be heavily focused on fighting, not those who have repeatedly and gleefully defended accused and admitted sexual abusers. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/19 "2019-09-15T10:26:39Z")
Yeah, not gonna lie, if I start a thread wondering, “should we be bothered that a presidential candidate probably killed a dude”, I’m not super interested in hearing the opinion of the head of the Ted Bundy fan club. Anyways, as is the typical pattern, the message here is simple: _believe women_. Take these accusations seriously. Do not ignore them because the evidence isn’t strong enough for a criminal conviction. Now this guy is essentially above the law in his position, so there’s little to no action that can be taken. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/20 "2019-09-15T12:46:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Some guys pushed his penis into some lady’s face and…that’s on him? > :dubious::smack: It’s exactly the nightmare scenario we guys have been warning about, right? You’re at a party with your pants around your ankles, you and your exposed penis innocently minding your own business, and then out of the blue you get accused of improper behavior… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241.md?page=2)