# New sexual assault allegation against Justice Kavanaugh **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241 "2019-09-15T01:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/161 "2019-09-17T00:58:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The facts are: this is a long past story with no witnesses or victim. When someone insists that this is a big new deal we should all start investigating, the only fact left to ponder is their motivation. But…there are witnesses? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/162 "2019-09-17T01:15:46Z")
Not to this new story. The person named as a witness isn’t talking. Right now, two journalists say that these other two guys confirm that this other guy talked to the FBI about it. Or am I missing a piece? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/163 "2019-09-17T01:38:32Z")
I don’t think there are actual witnesses to the Ramirez story either, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/164 "2019-09-17T01:47:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Not to this new story. The person named as a witness isn’t talking. Right now, two journalists say that these other two guys confirm that this other guy talked to the FBI about it. Or am I missing a piece? So what you are saying is that there appears to be a witness who talked to the FBI (according to other witnesses) but that no further investigation was undertaken to see if there were other witnesses or to establish the credibility of what that witness stated was true? And that alleged witness is not talking to the press. Huh. Events from decades ago can be investigated. Cases are harder to _prove_ to be sure. Anyway. The main person to benefit from this in the news cycle will be Biden. First it got his strange record player answer fairly forgotten about. And Warren (Harris too but no one cares about her anymore) has harmed herself by calling for impeachment at this point. Her continued rise means furthering expanding the groups she appeals to. Those who currently soft support Biden or who began to move from him to her (less hard left voters of all colors and demographics) will I believe find that call to be something not presidential, more akin to a Trumpian “Lock her up!” than to the respect for process they want to see. It certainly pushes me away from her. [His take](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-fails-to-join-other-candidates-in-calling-for-kavanaugh-impeachment) is much more appropriate and measured. > [@](#): > > “We must follow the evidence to wherever it leads,” Biden said in a statement Sunday. “Doing this the right way is critically important in getting the truth and restoring the American people’s faith in their government.” … “We need to get to the bottom of whether the Trump Administration and Senate Republicans pressured the FBI to ignore evidence or prevented them from following up on leads relating to Justice Kavanaugh’s background investigation, subsequent allegations that arose, and the truthfulness of his testimony to the Senate,” … We really don’t need another president who sees a crowd and thinks the best thing to do is get in front of it with a pitchfork and a torch. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/165 "2019-09-17T02:01:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So what you are saying is that there appears to be a witness who talked to the FBI (according to other witnesses) but that no further investigation was undertaken to see if there were other witnesses or to establish the credibility of what that witness stated was true? And that alleged witness is not talking to the press. > > Huh. > > Events from decades ago can be investigated. Cases are harder to _prove_ to be sure. What I’m saying is that all we know is there may be a witness, we don’t know what caveats and fogginess was in his interview. And the thing we shouldn’t forget: the victim isn’t claiming victimhood. Not remembering it at all, in fact. Don’t know how many decades old crimes like that get investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/166 "2019-09-17T02:14:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What would be a “very good explanation” in your view? If the hypothetical she (or Kavanaugh for that matter) came forward, admitted what they did, and said something like, “I was really stupid in my younger days; I recognize that what I did was terrible, and it weighs heavily on me to this day that I was once that kind of person. I am very remorseful for what I have done, but that isn’t who I am anymore” I’d at least hear them out. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/167 "2019-09-17T09:07:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > What I’m saying is that all we know is there may be a witness, we don’t know what caveats and fogginess was in his interview. And the thing we shouldn’t forget: the victim isn’t claiming victimhood. Not remembering it at all, in fact. Don’t know how many decades old crimes like that get investigated. A thorough investigation might answer questions like this, as well as finding more witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/168 "2019-09-17T12:35:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I believe you really care. Enough to generally be dishonest to combat it. Like here, pretending a 30 yr old crime with no witnesses or victim should be thoroughly investigated for purely justice concerns. You really need to drop these allusions to honesty regarding other posters. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/169 "2019-09-17T12:59:21Z")
Ok, but my mind goes there when someone tells me their plan is to investigate any and all possibility of wrongdoing by any Republican in high office along with using, twisting and changing the rules to get whatever possible political and legislative benefit they can. But I’m the cynical type. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/170 "2019-09-17T14:53:59Z")
This is a true story: I had some time to kill before an appointment this morning, so I went to get a coffee. I find a place to sit at a row of barstools. I notice as I’m sitting down that the guy a few (empty) seats away is wearing a backwards camouflage MAGA hat. I’m drinking my coffee and sending a few emails, and about three minutes later, that guys scoots down few seats next to me. I can feel him staring at me, so I look over and say hello. He glances down, and so do I. He is masturbating in this coffee shop. I get up, tell the staff, and leave. Why am I mentioning this? Because as far as I can tell, Republicans would support this guy if nominated to the Supreme Court, because I didn’t report him to the police, I don’t have any hard evidence that this happened, I’m not going to take it to a newspaper, and the only other person who knows it happened is a cashier who doesn’t know me from Adam. After all, we can’t let unproven allegations get in the way of this man’s career path. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/171 "2019-09-17T14:56:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If the hypothetical she (or Kavanaugh for that matter) came forward, admitted what they did, and said something like, “I was really stupid in my younger days; I recognize that what I did was terrible, and it weighs heavily on me to this day that I was once that kind of person. I am very remorseful for what I have done, but that isn’t who I am anymore” I’d at least hear them out. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/172 "2019-09-17T15:32:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This is a true story: I had some time to kill before an appointment this morning, so I went to get a coffee. I find a place to sit at a row of barstools. I notice as I’m sitting down that the guy a few (empty) seats away is wearing a backwards camouflage MAGA hat. > > I’m drinking my coffee and sending a few emails, and about three minutes later, that guys scoots down few seats next to me. I can feel him staring at me, so I look over and say hello. He glances down, and so do I. He is masturbating in this coffee shop. I get up, tell the staff, and leave. > > Why am I mentioning this? Because as far as I can tell, Republicans would support this guy if nominated to the Supreme Court, because I didn’t report him to the police, I don’t have any hard evidence that this happened, I’m not going to take it to a newspaper, and the only other person who knows it happened is a cashier who doesn’t know me from Adam. > > After all, we can’t let unproven allegations get in the way of this man’s career path. I hope you took note of the size of coffee he was drinking. Was it a tall? Was it a grande? Was his name written on the cup? It was a busy shop, were there witnesses who will come forward to corroborate? What was the name of the waitress? Inquiring Republican minds will want to know. I mean, if you can’t remember important details like that, how can we believe anything you have to say? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/173 "2019-09-17T15:48:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hope you took note of the size of coffee he was drinking. Was it a tall? Was it a grande? Was his name written on the cup? It was a busy shop, were there witnesses who will come forward to corroborate? What was the name of the waitress? Inquiring Republican minds will want to know. I mean, if you can’t remember important details like that, how can we believe anything you have to say? Plus, I’m simply not to be trusted. I have a long history with Democratic politics, including my one and only campaign contribution ever of $100 to a Democrat congressional candidate in 2008 _who I personally had known for a decade by that time!!!_ Thank goodness I’m not a woman, because then I’d be accused of being both partisan AND hysterical… and I was kind of asking for it because I went into a coffee shop alone. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/174 "2019-09-17T15:52:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Plus, I’m simply not to be trusted. I have a long history with Democratic politics, including my one and only campaign contribution ever of $100 to a Democrat congressional candidate in 2008 _who I personally had known for a decade by that time!!!_ Thank goodness I’m not a woman, because then I’d be accused of being both partisan AND hysterical… and I was kind of asking for it because I went into a coffee shop alone. Whore. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/175 "2019-09-17T16:56:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The main person to benefit from this in the news cycle will be Biden. First it got his strange record player answer fairly forgotten about. By white people, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/176 "2019-09-17T17:00:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > By white people, certainly. Is this you predicting a dip in African Americans’ support for Biden? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/177 "2019-09-17T18:02:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > By white people, certainly. Pretty much by everyone other than a few who are already supporting someone else and want to create something by way of Twitter comments. Remember that the strength of Biden’s support in the Black demographic is with older Black voters who don’t spend so much time in the Twitterverse. They like his moderate positions and his association with the Obama years. So long as they think he is the most electable I don’t think “record player” will spin too badly. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/178 "2019-09-17T18:15:03Z")
Among the reporting on the reporting, this tidbit from the author’s book came out: > [@](#): > > [Buried at the end of their new book “The Education of Brett Kavanaugh: An Investigation,” reporters Robin Pogebrin and Kate Kelly quietly admit that Christine Blasey Ford’s lifelong friend Leland Keyser did not believe her friend’s tale of a sexual assault at a party they both supposedly attended. Keyser was named by Ford as a witness, one of four who denied any knowledge of the event in question. …](https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/15/new-book-christine-blasey-fords-friend-leland-keyser-doesnt-believe/) The actual Keyser quote is “I don’t have any confidence in the story.” (Ford’s story, that is) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/179 "2019-09-17T18:35:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Among the reporting on the reporting, this tidbit from the author’s book came out: > > The actual Keyser quote is “I don’t have any confidence in the story.” (Ford’s story, that is) I take this to mean that your position is that an investigation is not necessary because there is no there there. (?) But if there is no there there, an investigation would make that conclusion. Would it not be in the interest of the public, the accused, the administration and the institution of the SCOTUS, to have the investigation and finally put this to rest? Even an inconclusive result based on all due diligence could be claimed as such, underscoring the importance of the presumption of innocence. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241/180 "2019-09-17T18:47:52Z")
It’s a little more relevant, not to mention politically and judicially sound, to look at it in terms of his truthfulness under oath in his hearings. His personal conduct, for better or worse, has already been assessed politically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-sexual-assault-allegation-against-justice-kavanaugh/840241.md?page=10)