# New Show: Lucifer **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2016, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247 "2016-01-26T08:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/301 "2016-04-13T23:59:13Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Even if the coin works, what kept him from shooting Lucifer after he had the coin? He doesn’t strike me as a man whose word is his bond. If he had shot Lucifer (although we now know it wouldn’t have killed him), he would have both the coin and Amenadiel’s good will, as far as that went. Now he has Amenadiel after him. Maybe it takes Lucifer to ‘power’ it? Not that mustache would know that. On the other hand, I don’t know that he knew he was killing the actual devil until he got flashed, so he may have been happy to get out of there. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/302 "2016-04-14T01:18:20Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Hey, wait a minute. > > Didn’t they say early on that while Lucifer was AWOL, nobody was going to hell? > > So how come Coma Boy went? > > If Amenadiel sent him there, then clearly, Lucifer isn’t needed to send people to hell, nor for them to be tormented there. people are going to hell - but mgt is not there to keep it under control or whatever it was that he did - its like hell ahs gone to , well, hell. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/303 "2016-04-14T08:07:54Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Hey, wait a minute. > > Didn’t they say early on that while Lucifer was AWOL, nobody was going to hell? People are still going, I think - just not sure where in the comic book continuity this is - when Morpheus is in charge of Hell (seems most likely), or the angels Duma and Remiel… ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/304 "2016-04-14T15:24:16Z")
Amenadiel is patrolling the borders to keep escapees in place, but Pandemonium is pandemonium, I presumes. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/305 "2016-04-14T15:28:29Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Maybe it takes Lucifer to ‘power’ it? Not that mustache would know that. On the other hand, I don’t know that he knew he was killing the actual devil until he got flashed, so he may have been happy to get out of there. I think that mustache boy is generally corrupt, but it takes the form of taking bribes and such. I don’t think he’s ever murdered before, and probably has no stomach for actual killing. The coin thing does bother me. Spirit beings shouldn’t need things like coins or wings to move from one dimension to another. But tangible, visible metaphors make better television, I guess. Or maybe the conversions back and forth between spirit and matter do need something to aid it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/306 "2016-04-14T15:42:09Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > The coin thing does bother me. Spirit beings shouldn’t need things like coins or wings to move from one dimension to another. This is consistent with the comics - Dream’s mask and other artifacts, for instance, serve as power conduits. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/307 "2016-04-14T17:55:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > People are still going, I think - just not sure where in the comic book continuity this is - when Morpheus is in charge of Hell (seems most likely), or the angels Duma and Remiel… Early in the season they made it a point of emphasis that people aren’t going to hell while Lucifer is on earth. Lucifer even said it out loud to someone, I think maybe the record exec dude that ends up in the looney bin, that he wasn’t going to kill him because he wouldn’t go to hell to be punished, and he deserved to be punished. That continuity is all shot to hell with mustache guy’s arc. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/308 "2016-04-14T19:59:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > people are going to hell - but mgt is not there to keep it under control or whatever it was that he did - its like hell ahs gone to , well, hell. If the show is being consistent with the comics, Dream is briefly in charge, followed by a change of management. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/309 "2016-04-15T03:41:23Z")
> [@mage-girl](#): > > Ah, Lucifer. My weekly dose of “hot-guy-who-would-annoy-the-crap-out-of-me-in-real-life”. :o Ditto. 😃 > [@Tapiotar](#): > > Glad he resumed some anger and power at the end of this last ep. Learning that Amenadiel would actually take steps to kill him really gave him a jolt. **As did the lesson of the week – being good in secret is more satisfying than making a show about it.** Added to his power, took away from the insecure teenager aspects he sometimes shows. My bolding. My take on the “lesson” is that he learned that the best rewards are for things done selflessly. When he was being magnanimous for public recognition, it didn’t feel as good as when he did it because it was the right thing to do. Interior versus exterior good. This type of dynamic is one of the things I find fascinating about this show. So why, I have begun to speculate, is Chloe different? Did “dad” place her near Lucifer to help him learn and become a better “person”? Is she inherently a more purely good person than most people he meets? Is she another angel? Maybe there’s no secret about her at all, but I’m starting to wonder. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/310 "2016-04-15T09:31:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Early in the season they made it a point of emphasis that people aren’t going to hell while Lucifer is on earth. Lucifer even said it out loud to someone, I think maybe the record exec dude that ends up in the looney bin, that he wasn’t going to kill him because he wouldn’t go to hell to be punished, and he deserved to be punished. I took it as people might still go to hell, but that since Lucifer wasn’t there, there was no-one to render judgement and hence no appropriate punishment. Did he specifically say the guy wouldn’t go to hell, or just that he wouldn’t be punished, I can’t recall. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/311 "2016-04-15T10:05:13Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > So why, I have begun to speculate, is Chloe different? Did “dad” place her near Lucifer to help him learn and become a better “person”? Is she inherently a more purely good person than most people he meets? Is she another angel? Maybe there’s no secret about her at all, but I’m starting to wonder. With the reveal of her link to Lucifer’s vulnerability, it really does look like she’s going to be the Elaine Belloc expy, which … yeah, no. I _like_ Chloe, but she’s no Elaine Belloc. But if she _is_, then no, her power doesn’t come from being a purely good person, it comes from her heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/312 "2016-04-15T13:01:47Z")
Is the comic worth reading? I did take a look at it, but the lettering in Lucifer’s speech balloons looked headache-inducing. Is it worth the effort of getting the eyes used to it? ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/313 "2016-04-15T13:04:24Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > So why, I have begun to speculate, is Chloe different? Did “dad” place her near Lucifer to help him learn and become a better “person”? Is she inherently a more purely good person than most people he meets? Is she another angel? Maybe there’s no secret about her at all, but I’m starting to wonder. I don’t think she’s inherently more purely good, but there must be something special about her. Her mother was impregnated by an angel, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/314 "2016-04-15T13:58:04Z")
I’m thinking Lucifer pulled a con job on Malcolm. The coin is just a coin. He made it look like something powerful by having it levitate. Kevin Rankin, the actor who plays Malcolm, played the role of “Devil” in Justified. Somebody on IMDB made a list called “Top 22 celebrities who look like they can be racist” and put him as #1. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/315 "2016-04-15T14:16:15Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > Is the comic worth reading? I did take a look at it, but the lettering in Lucifer’s speech balloons looked headache-inducing. Is it worth the effort of getting the eyes used to it? I think it’s worth it. It’s no sandman, but I liked it. I never even noticed the lettering. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/316 "2016-04-15T17:46:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I took it as people might still go to hell, but that since Lucifer wasn’t there, there was no-one to render judgement and hence no appropriate punishment. Did he specifically say the guy wouldn’t go to hell, or just that he wouldn’t be punished, I can’t recall. My memory is that not only did he say the guy wouldn’t go to hell, he and Amanadiel (sp?) also had a conversation where they both acknowledged that nobody was going to hell while Lucifer is on vacation. Plus I think there was a third scene where Lucifer told someone in a regular conversation that nobody is going to hell now, possibly Maze or maybe the priest dude. Though I think all three instances were very early on, within the first 3-4 shows. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/317 "2016-04-15T17:56:14Z")
its also possible that ‘no one is in hell’ is still true and that mustache went to ‘purgatory’ and Amandeiel was calling it ‘hell’ for mustache as a scare tactic - and mustache isn’t smart enough to know the difference. Another way to put it -the only person that thinks he went to hell is mustache, and Amanadiel isn’t going to correct him (doesn’t matter) and where ever mustache was, it was enough that Lucifer’s true face wasn’t a shock. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/318 "2016-04-15T21:37:03Z")
That’s a fair point, especially considering his description of “hell.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/319 "2016-04-15T23:43:54Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > The coin thing does bother me. Spirit beings shouldn’t need things like coins or wings to move from one dimension to another. But tangible, visible metaphors make better television, I guess. Or maybe the conversions back and forth between spirit and matter do need something to aid it. Or maybe the Devil isn’t called the Prince of Lies for nothing. Where does Amenadiel get off thinking he can boss Lucifer around? He’s just some measly angel, not a proper archangel, like Luci. Lucifer could crush him like a bug. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247/320 "2016-04-16T00:07:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Where does Amenadiel get off thinking he can boss Lucifer around? He’s just some measly angel, not a proper archangel, like Luci. Lucifer could crush him like a bug. You have no basis for saying that, unless you can show that the writers are strictly following whatever template you’re citing. So far, they don’t seem to be strictly following either traditional Christian dogma or the graphic novels. And in the show itself, I can’t recall any encounter between L and A that implied L’s superiority. A physically threatened L in the first episode; L had to call A to stop time in another episode; and A beat the crap out of L in yet another episode. Those don’t sound like the actions of someone who knows that L could crush him like a bug. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-show-lucifer/744247.md?page=17)