# New Star Trek series **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2001, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203 "2001-06-18T07:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/81 "2001-06-22T06:36:39Z")
Fiver… > [@](#): > > I very much doubt they would have been using the transporter for such trivial purposes as assembling sandwiches. Fine, then how’s this: They had chefs in the galley making the food, but the chefs themselves were called “replicators”. And they were very, very fast in preparing meals. 'Zat okay? Tracer… > [@](#): > > Yeah. Star Wars just has spacecraft that maneuver like World War II fighter planes, and a super unbelievably powerful energy field technology that they use to make … um, swords. Hey, ST has the friggin’ _capital ships_ maneuvering like WWII fighter planes, fer cryin’ out loud. And don’t you even START dissin’ the lightsabers… that’s Pit talk there, boy! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/82 "2001-06-22T06:53:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*You mean to tell me that the Klingons are using the same design for centuries, while the Federation keeps on advancing? As my friend put it, “I know the Klingons have issues, but man, they’re not stupid!” \*\* Well…yeah, that’s really the thing. They’re NOT stupid. They’ve got a handful of designs that work for them, and they reuse them (though they would, of course, change the important stuff - the cloaking device, the disruptors and other weapons, the shields, the warp system - to keep up with advances of other cultures and their own), because, hey, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Changing the cosmetic design of a Bird of Prey wouldn’t change its effectiveness one iota (without, for example, a major advance in warp technology that would require a different sort of symmetry for the pylons). ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/83 "2001-06-22T07:01:09Z")
Tengu is right. And anyways, i like the klingon designs. They are some of the best looking. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/84 "2001-06-22T07:02:27Z")
Yeah, but the damn Federation comes out with a new design, what is it, every other week? And the Klingons are happy to keep the superstructure the same, while changing only the guts? I suppose you could make the argument that Klingons lead a spartan existance, yadda, yadda, yadda, but come on, I ain’t gonna buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/85 "2001-06-22T07:05:40Z")
Wasn’t it the Romulans who had the ships called _Bird of Prey_? If not, then what were the Romulans called? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/86 "2001-06-22T07:09:54Z")
I have heard a would-be explanation for the Klingon ridges. Seems the Klingons seen in TNG and on are called “Imperial Klingons,” and the Klingons in TOS are (I think) a Klingon/human hybrid. When TNG first came out, the explanation given was that they bred a more palatable Klingon to better interact with other alien cultures (which is complete hogwash, but there it is; they also say that in TOS Klingons were “hunters,” and in TNG they were “warriors”). So now they’re saying that the Imperial Klingons were in power on the homeworld during “Enterprise,” and then a hundred years later there was a political power shift (someone probably killed the leader of the Council again), and the other Klingons took power during TOS. Then, a hundred years later again, the Imperial Klingons regained their rightful place as leaders of the Empire, yadda yadda yadda. Let’s just keep in mind - Star Trek has **never** been known for its continuity. Some things we just have to accept, even if they don’t make perfect sense. Remember - it’s just a television show, kiddies. 😃 (And this coming from a true Trek GEEK!) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/87 "2001-06-22T07:55:09Z")
Esprix, et al., I’ve heard that explanation as well, and as you point out, it really doesn’t wash. For as we saw, Kor, Kang and Koloth went from smooth to bumpy. I would go with the “palatable” Klingon idea if pressed, but say that they all decided to reclaim their ridges. But then why is Kahless from “The Savage Curtain” smooth, while Kahless in TNG is bumpy? Perhaps one should view it the same way I view the 20th and 30th anniversary Doctor Who shows (“The Five Doctors” and “Dmensions In Time”)–it’s obvious that all the actors are older, despite the fact that the storylines have each of them plucked from their own timestreams where/when they should look younger. I just ignore the obvious aging and try to enjoy the show. And one final Klingon note or two. Obviously no one in the “present day” in the Trek timeline has ever seen an old history tape, as Bashier, O’Brien, and Odo have no idea that they’re sharing a barroom with Klingons in “Trials and Tribble-ations.” Makes for good one-liners and funny speculation, but not a whole hell of a lot of logic. Also, has anyone ever wondered why Koloth from “The Trouble With Tribbles” (I call him Elvis Koloth for his greasy pompadour) can’t pronounce his own race’s name? He says something about “Kling-gon” nationals. To the OP: I look forward to Enterprise, though I find Bakula to be a bit of a bland actor, though I’ve only seen him in “Quantum Leap,” “Murphy FYI-whatever her name was, Brown?” and “American Beauty.” MHO, of course, though the way he played that final scene with Al’s wife, telling her Al was alive and coming home, gets me every time I see it. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/88 "2001-06-22T09:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GuanoLad \* > Why is everyone getting worked up about the replicators, when the issue of Spock no longer being the first alien in Starfleet is now in contention? The new show pre-dates the establishment of Starfleet, so there is no conflict. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/89 "2001-06-22T10:28:50Z")
Tuckerfan… > [@](#): > > Yeah, but the damn Federation comes out with a new design, what is it, every other week? Are you kidding? The Federation designs have primarily been thusly: “Roundish command section, cylindrical-ish engineering section, and two warp nacelles.” The exceptions have been stuff like the Defiant. Voyager and the Enterprise-E were basically that same design with a little bit of elongation. > [@](#): > > Wasn’t it the Romulans who had the ships called Bird of Prey? If not, then what were the Romulans called? _Warbirds_. RE: The Smooth-to-Bumpy forehead dilemma… My own personal theory is similar to Esprix’s. I think it would make sense for the majority of space-faring Klingons to have underwent plastic surgery (if they can make a human look like a Klingon, they can make a Klingon look like a human) so as to make them less-fearsome to other species (hey, you can’t ALWAYS attack and kill everything you see). After some time, they decided “To hell with it” and began sending out their starships with the Klingon crew in all their bumpy-headed glory. Yeah, it’s a stupid explanation… perfect for a stupid series. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/90 "2001-06-22T15:21:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, has anyone ever wondered why Koloth from “The Trouble With Tribbles” (I call him Elvis Koloth for his greasy pompadour) can’t pronounce his own race’s name? He says something about “Kling-gon” nationals. That’s because the universal translator wasn’t as good then. That’s why half the Quadrent was learning to speak “Klingonese.” As for the Bumpy/Non-Bumpy dilemma, just explain it with a Q-like alien (“i will punish you klingons by removing your ridges for 50 years!”). But since they will just bring Q around because the ratings will be low and they destroy continuality for breakfast, Q will do it. Q does everything. Hopefully Species 8472 doesn’t show up and blow Earth to smitherines, causing Captain Sam Beckett to have to enter the Quantum Leap accelerator and travel back in time to prevent such a tragedy… ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/91 "2001-06-22T19:59:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > **(if they can make a human look like a Klingon [surgically], they can make a Klingon look like a human)** I don’t think so. To surgically make a human look like a Klingon, you graft flesh and bone to his face. To make a Klingon look like a human, you have to _subtract_ flesh and bone (and brain…?) from his face. Sto-voh-kor help a Klingon with part of his skull missing if he gets into a fight! In one episode of TNG, Worf went from Klingon to human and back three times! (Paul Sorvino guest-starred as Worf’s adoptive brother.) The same troubles apply when trying to make a Cardassian (Gul Dukat) look like a Bajoran. Me, I always liked the idea that there were two different species, each calling themselves Klingon, always fighting for dominance. When the bumpy-headed species won out, sometime between the end of TOS and _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_, some of the smooth-headed people decided to have themselves surgically altered to “pass”. (Even a Klingon might decide that if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em!) This would explain the changed appearances of Kor, Kang and Koloth. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/92 "2001-06-22T21:25:09Z")
I’ve been staying out of this, but I suppose I might as well add my own little bit of retcon: The Klingon race can/could be divided into two subspecies; let’s call them Bumpy and Nonbumpy. The Nonbumpies are very human in appearance, as we all know. They are also generally smaller and weaker than their Bumpy cousins. Due to considerable physical advantages, the Bumpies were far more numerous throughout Klingon history–the Nonbumpies eventually learned to make their own way in Bumpy society by feigning adherence the rules of honor so dear to the Bumpies, and by making themselves useful. They became particularly useful as Klingons made their way into space: their smaller size made them cheaper and more practical to launch in the early days. This precedent led to a considerable predominance of Nonbumpies serving in the Klingon fleet, generally on vessels crewed exclusively by their own subspecies. The Nonbumpies engineered this custom quite deliberately; the pressures of living in the shadow of the Bumpies had left them far more cunning and devious than their kin, and they were planning to use control of the fleet as a basis for a takeover bid when the time was right. Although the first Klingons encountered by the Federation happened to be Bumpies, whose aggressive nature undoubtedly contributed to the beginning of the war, the Nonbumpies eventually took over Klingon dealings with the Feds–reasoning that their apparent similarity to humans would give them an edge, and that success against the Feds would be good PR. So they lied, schemed, snuck around, and poisoned grain (all practices that the Bumpies would have been outraged about) without ever telling their honorable kin. Eventually, however, the truth came out somehow–an angry letter from an ambassador, a slip of the tongue, it doesn’t matter. The Bumpies decided that the Nonbumpies had besmirched the honor of the entire Klingon race, and embarked on a civil war. The Nonbumpies put up a good fight–they _were_ more cunning–but they were outnumbered and outgunned; the few that survived did so by having themselves altered to look like Bumpies and changing records to hide their backgrounds. They then returned to hiding within Bumpy society, and no visible traces of the somatotype remained. They may all be dead…or they may not. So…should I apply for a position as a continuity consultant? Or should I (more likely) just shut up? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/93 "2001-06-22T22:53:04Z")
You know, it’s funny. I was involved in a discussion about Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet on a Trek listserv that I’m part of not too long ago. I’m beginning to think that “Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet” is a lot like those founding members of the Federation. That is, something that everybody “knows,” but almost nobody can point to a canon source that actually _says_ it. The best we could come up with was “Journey to Babel,” in which Sarek disapproves of Spock’s being in Starfleet. But that only establishes that Starfleet was an odd choice for a Vulcan. NOT that Spock was the first one ever to make such a choice. What about it? Anybody got a better source? **Tuckerfan** is in fact correct. Originally, way back in TOS, it was the Romulans whose ships were called Birds of Prey (see the episode “Balance of Terror”). Klingon ships weren’t called by that name until one of the movies. _Wrath of Khan_, I believe. Ah, vehement arguments about unimportant minutiae. Now that’s what Star Trek is all about! ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/94 "2001-06-22T22:59:29Z")
One small problem with that: It’s obvious that Kang, Kor and Koloth WEREN’T hiding out, that they had NOT changed their records. They were honored as heroes (see DS9), especially Kor, for being the first Klingon to meet the hated Captain Kirk. But we all must face the possibility that they will NEVER explain this. Roddenberry’s own reason for changing the Klingons is “That’s how I always saw them, but in TOS, we didn’t have the time and money or materials to make them up the way I wanted.” His widow, Majel Barret, has repeated this answer whenever she’s asked. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/95 "2001-06-22T23:03:11Z")
I believe Spock’s status as “first Vulcan to graduate from Starfleet” was specifically mentioned in _Star Trek: The Motion Picture._ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2001, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/96 "2001-06-22T23:13:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > **One small problem with that: It’s obvious that Kang, Kor and Koloth WEREN’T hiding out, that they had NOT changed their records.** I was replying to **Balance** , not **MrAtoz**. I should’a quoted. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/97 "2001-06-23T00:16:20Z")
SPOOFE wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Wasn’t it the Romulans who had the ships called Bird of Prey? If not, then what were the Romulans called? > > _Warbirds_. According to the plastic model kits that came out in the 1970s, the Romulan sub-light ship with the bird painted on its underside (from the TOS episode “Balance of Terror”) was indeed called the _Bird of Prey_. In fact, remember how _Star Trek III: The Search for Spock_ was the first time anyone had ever seen, or even heard of, a “Klingon Bird of Prey”? Well … one rumor I’d heard was that the enemies in _Star Trek III_ were originally going to be **Romulans**. So, the special effects guys crafted a brand new cooler-looking-for-the-movies Romulan Bird of Prey starship, and started filming their special effects sequences. **Then** , at the last minute, the decision came down from On High to change the bad guys from Romulans to Klingons. (This despite the fact that the script clearly called for the bad guys’ ship to have a cloaking device!) But by that time, they’d already invested so much time and money in the Bird of Prey special effects that instead of re-filming all the sequences with a Klingon Battlecruiser, they just decided to call their Romulan ship a “Klingon Bird of Prey.” And we’ve been stuck with this Romulan-ship-in-Klingon’s-clothing, and the notion that Klingons are regular users of cloaking technology, ever since. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/98 "2001-06-23T00:54:12Z")
The producer/writer of _Trek 3_ (I forget his name) pointed out that in the TOS episode “The _Enterprise_ Incident”, the Romulans were using Klingon-designed ships because of some sort of agreement. The implication is that the Klingons exchanged ship designs for cloaking technology. I think the Klingons got the better part of that deal. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/99 "2001-06-23T00:54:30Z")
Well, Klingons and Romulans have been trading military technology back and forth for a long time now. There was a point in TOS where the Romulans were flying around in Klingon battle cruisers. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2001, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203/100 "2001-06-23T00:56:57Z")
Hah! Beat you to it! Neener, neener, neener! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-star-trek-series/69203.md?page=6)