# New Study: 45,000 die in U.S every year from lack of healthcare **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616 "2009-09-18T17:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/201 "2009-09-25T13:04:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Please kill yourself. Please don’t wish death on other posters. > [@](#): > > Do not threaten harm or wish death on another poster > > Do not threaten another poster with physical harm, or wish for their demise. This includes hypothetical statements like “it would make me happy if someone ran you over” or “I hope you say that to [someone prone to stabbing people] and they stab you”. > **[Revised Forum Rules for the BBQ Pit: read this before posting](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985)** > > The BBQ Pit is the forum for rants about the outside world or quarrels between posters - often the first turns into the second. Although the standards of discourse are looser than in the other forums, the Pit is NOT a free-for-all - you don’t have to... No warning issued. \*\* Gfactor\*\* Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/202 "2009-09-25T13:43:40Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Please don’t wish death on other posters. Would “Go get an American form of health care” be considered a similar violation? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/203 "2009-09-25T15:15:20Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Would “Go get an American form of health care” be considered a similar violation? And what about “go get the health care American poor get!”? She’s potentially wishing death on 45,000 people, after all. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/204 "2009-09-25T17:24:22Z")
And once again an episode of the Ongoing Stupidity of Curlcoat derails a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/205 "2009-09-25T18:22:05Z")
I wonder what would happen if no one responded to her? I mean NO ONE. Would her head 'splode? Of course, many don’t seem to have the self-control to just blow her off. I don’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/206 "2009-09-25T18:42:31Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > I wonder what would happen if no one responded to her? I mean NO ONE. Would her head 'splode? Of course, many don’t seem to have the self-control to just blow her off. I don’t understand it. Someone always does, and then the stupidity gets to be too much to ignore. Hell, Harborwolf thinks she’s good people. Seriously. I guess I have this sick optimism that one day, at least one fact that is offered to her will penetrate her thick carapace. Hey, miracles can happen, right? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/207 "2009-09-25T18:49:12Z")
You know the definition of insanity, right? Plus, it’s just more fun to\* not \*give curlcoat what she wants. But since I can only control myself, I need to just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/208 "2009-09-25T18:50:35Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > …Hey, miracles can happen, right? No. They can’t. That’s what makes them “miracles”. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/209 "2009-09-25T19:11:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No. They can’t. That’s what makes them “miracles”. I managed to quit a couple of pages back. Haven’t risen to \*\*curlcoat’s \*\*bait since. I admit, it’s kinda like quitting coke though. So I’m using the twelve steps. _Hi. My name is CannyDan, and I have a problem…_ ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/210 "2009-09-25T19:18:52Z")
… I came to realize I was powerless over curlcoat and my life had become unmanageable… ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/211 "2009-09-25T19:27:40Z")
Next! You, yes you in the back, stand up and make your declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/212 "2009-09-25T19:34:35Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I was referring to you saying that your parents are middle class, aren’t in danger of losing their house and support a UHC. Those things have nothing to do with my situation, which is what the previous post was about. Okay, let’s review our ‘conversation’ so far: **Me** : Hey, curlcoat, why is it that Canadians can pay less for healthcare and cover everyone? **You** : Well…how high are the taxes there? How much are the poor, downtrodden middleclass like me suffering? What about the fact that Canadians wait forever for any kind of care? You don’t know any of these things! **Me** : Actually I do, partially because I am smarter than you and literate, which you apparently are not, and also because I live in Canada. I myself do not pay taxes, but here’s an example of people who are in your age group, at your income level, are paying a mortgage and planning retirement just like you and are _not_ being forced out of their homes or driven to destitution by the taxes involved in providing UHC. **You** : But, but, but… this is no longer about me! I refuse to take anecdotal tales of other people at face value, but my own life experience is undeniably universal! ME ME ME! Seriously, do you not get that this is meant to be a general debate about healthcare? Not every decision is based on what some bitter old hag in California thinks will happen to her. Governmant decisions should be based on the greater good. You don’t always get exactly what you want, and neither does anyone else, but that’s democracy for you. > [@](#): > > According to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada), the idea of government subsidized healthcare started in the 18th century in Canada. **Fear Itself** already nicely addressed this - the idea and the reality are not the same. The idea has been bandied about the US for a long time too. Regardless, do you really think that this is a good reason? By this arguement nothing would ever be allowed to change, because it’s only a good idea if it started a long time ago. Surely you see how this attitude would stop progress cold if put into effect. > [@](#): > > Are you of the opinion that if a woman isn’t married, she cannot possibly take care of herself? No, I’m of the opinion that if _you_ weren’t married _you_ couldn’t support yourself. > [@](#): > > I am not going to take money out of our retirement just to pay for one prescription. Really? You really can’t lay your hands on a measly $60 for a prescription, out of your SSDI payments or out of your husbands salary? Hell, as a starving student I could rustle up that kind of dough if it meant better health for me. I flatly refuse to beileve that you would have to raid your giant retirement fund for that. Eat some less fancy food, take the bus instead of drive once in a while, maybe stop taking youre dogs to all kinds of stupid places. Learn to budget, then maybe you won’t have your panties in such a twist all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/213 "2009-09-25T19:44:54Z")
You know I just had a thought, an epiphany if you will. If the information is out there to be had about publicly funded insurance and the good it will do, why do people have so many arguments for/against. Are they all wrong, are some of them wrong. Who is doing the world an injustice here? Those who want it or those who don’t? I see this as THE fault of the people proposing said insurance. I’ve seen the argument that UHC will costs us less (in total) than what is currently being spent to cover the uninsured (cite please) This one simple argument would sway me to the side of “Let’s do it” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/214 "2009-09-25T19:57:39Z")
To hear is to obey! [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009\_09/020119.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_09/020119.php) > [@](#): > > …the Congressional Budget Office has found that adding a public option to the health care system, and paying Medicare reimbursement rates, “will save even more money than originally thought.” Congress Daily reported, “In total, a public plan based on Medicare rates would save $110 billion over 10 years,” $20 billion more than earlier estimates… (Disclaimer: _Washington Monthly_ is centrist to mildly lefty site, no contamination protocols are required…) Glad to have you aboard! ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/215 "2009-09-26T01:58:00Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > You know I just had a thought, an epiphany if you will. If the information is out there to be had about publicly funded insurance and the good it will do, why do people have so many arguments for/against. The same reason people still argue for Creationism: The infinite human capacity to ignore evidence unfavorable to firmly established beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/216 "2009-09-26T06:40:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Well, now that you are including the _idea_ of government subsidized healthcare, that has been around in the US since at least 1912, when Teddy Roosevelt [included it in his platform](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29617)when he ran for president:So, since we have had many decades in which to become accustomed to the idea of UHC, you must agree it should be no great leap to finally implement it. Perhaps idea wasn’t the best word to use - Canada apparently had different local subsidized healthcare programs, starting back in the 18th century. > [@Spoons](#): > > I’d kinda like to see something other than a Wiki entry. > > [Hey, your words, not mine. Remember?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10757492&postcount=149) Shrug, OK. [Here](http://canadianaffairs.suite101.com/article.cfm/structure_and_history_of_canadian_healthcare) it talks about it dating back to 1947. Altho, if you look at the Wiki entry, that one has an impressive list of cites itself. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Please kill yourself. I highly doubt that my death would create a better life for children born to parents who cannot afford to properly raise them. Please note that I was nice enough to not report your threat to the mods. (Oops, I note in preview that a mod saw it anyway…) ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/217 "2009-09-26T06:57:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You don’t understand what you’re talking about. Insurance companies will get young people into the system because of the mandate. Young people are insurance company gold because they have to have coverage and aren’t usually sick. Young people have children - children are expensive for insurance companies. > [@](#): > > So the 30+ million new accounts will take the sting away from the insurance companies having to give access to people with pre-existing conditions. You are aware that young people can have preexisting conditions, right? I’ve had two all of my life. > [@](#): > > The final bill, if it includes a public option, will be required to have the public option be self-funding. That is to say that it will have to pay for it’s services with premiums, just like a conventional insurance company. > > Except, much, much more efficient. You have far more faith in the government’s ability to be at all efficient, much less much much more efficient than the average private company. Also, private insurance companies do not pay for services with the premiums they collect, not directly. They make investments and have large reserves they earn interest on - if they had to depend on premiums, particularly those from group policies, they would go broke quickly. > [@](#): > > There is no reason to think that. Many countries with stronger restrictions than we are going to put on the insurance industry still have private insurance. You would have to provide a cite for other countries’ stronger restrictions so I can compare them to what the current bill plans to do. > [@](#): > > It will cost you less, because part of the point is to make it so that it doesn’t increase at 3x inflation. My group policy premiums have never done that. > [@](#): > > But the portability offered by the plan will be good for you if your idiot husband (I assume the man can’t be that smart since he married a completely useless sack of weasel-jizz like yourself) loses his job he can keep his coverage. This is to help you. You don’t understand that, but you will be better off. This is to make your life better, and because you’re too stupid to reason you are raging about it. Well, I see there was no point in being polite to you. Anyway, we already have portability - we used it when he was laid off in 2008. Perhaps you don’t know enough about the insurance laws to know what is already available. > [@](#): > > You aren’t going to pay any more. Because you don’t make enough to trigger the tax increases. You may have to pay more if you have an exceptionally expensive health plan, but it won’t be much. That doesn’t make a bit of sense. If the bill goes thru, why would we end up paying more for our private insurance coverage? Or are you agreeing with me that we would end up paying a higher premium for the public option? > [@The Tao's Revenge](#): > > She’s potentially wishing death on 45,000 people, after all. Really? When did I do that? > [@niblet\_head](#): > > ``` > I wonder what would happen if no one responded to her? I mean NO ONE. Would her head 'splode? > > ``` All you have to do is go to any of the scores of threads that I’ve posted in to find out. If you don’t engage me in discussion, I ignore you. Same if you bore me. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/218 "2009-09-26T22:58:00Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > In a reply to kaylasdad. I shouldn’t respond to you because you are a waste of time and I think you’re mentally ill. But I’m bored and I don’t want you to get the last word. Uh, OK, tho it’s kind of ironic that you say that when you keep accusing me of being that childish. > [@](#): > > Cite? Which thread do you want? > [@](#): > > I don’t have to love you and kiss your ass to show compassion. I feel sorry for you because you are so fearful it makes you immune to facts, and so full of hate that you can’t even see clear to your own best financial interest. See, if you didn’t project yourself onto my posts, you might understand them better. I am not fearful nor do I hate anything. Hate in particular just takes too much energy and allows the hated person/object to take over part of your life. But apparently, you cannot take note of things that you think shouldn’t be going on without fearing and/or hating them. That would be your problem - don’t try to pretend that it is mine. > [@](#): > > This is why people think you are a troll. It has been PROVEN to you that women are not paid to have children. PROVEN. With cites. But you keep saying it as if it were true, seeing detriment to yourself where there is only enlightened self-interest in breaking the cycle of poverty. Oh fercrissakes. Do you really think that I believe that anyone is paying any woman to have children? Well, other than surrogates, if that still happens. > [@](#): > > The birth rate in the US is down. Fact. Teen pregnancy trends are overall down from previous decades. Fact. Women on welfare tend to have fewer children for their age cohort than women who aren’t. I don’t care if the birth rate is down (if it is, I’m not going to bother to look) because women having babies they cannot afford to raise shouldn’t happen at all. Period. > [@](#): > > torie tells her personal story and you think she’s a liar - because? I didn’t say she was. > [@](#): > > You are too evil-minded to give credit where it’s due, and even people who are trying to do right thing get shit from you. I don’t consider making the selfish decision to have children one cannot support to be doing “the right thing”. Is this all hitting too close to home for you? Is that why you keep going on and on and on? > [@](#): > > “Six figures” is hardly a concrete number upon which to base tax calculations. Why are you suddenly being coy about this? > [@](#): > > Cite? I am serious. You need to find an unbiased cite, because the other countries with so-called “socialist medicine” still have private insurers. Huh. First you say what I posted was just making excuses, and now you want a cite on an opinion? If you are serious, I’ll tell you why I think certain parts of the bill that was linked look like they will make life difficult for private insurance companies, tho if you would actually read what I write, I did touch on some of that already. Tho I don’t know why I’d bother - you are so full of negative bias regarding anything I post that I could tell you that the sun comes up in the east and you’d say I was lying. I snipped the rest of that because it was just more of your boring insults and, quite frankly, stupid bias. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/219 "2009-09-26T23:12:47Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Hell, Harborwolf thinks she’s good people. **Harborwolf** was polite, asked questions and didn’t assume. S/he quit posting because s/he didn’t like the nastiness that was being piled on in that thread - think about it. ( **Meyer** - I snipped the rest of your post because it was just more of the same - jump to a conclusion rather than ask for clarification. I do note however that instead of actually answering any of my questions, you just said your parents this and that. Nice sidestep.) > [@Meyer6](#): > > Really? You really can’t lay your hands on a measly $60 for a prescription, out of your SSDI payments or out of your husbands salary? Hell, as a starving student I could rustle up that kind of dough if it meant better health for me. I flatly refuse to beileve that you would have to raid your giant retirement fund for that. Eat some less fancy food, take the bus instead of drive once in a while, maybe stop taking youre dogs to all kinds of stupid places. Learn to budget, then maybe you won’t have your panties in such a twist all the time. This however I’ll answer. Yes, I could come up with a “measly” $60 (you must live better than I do if that is “measly”) but it didn’t happen to be in the budget to dump that much on a new prescription - note that word budget. We live on a budget and it doesn’t include fancy food nor new clothes, iphones or any of the other junk people buy these days. The bus isn’t really an option here - I could take it to the store or bank but it would end up costing about the same as driving, and I can’t take it in any realistic fashion outside of the cities. Our bus system is crap. As for the dogs, if I chose to spend my money on dog events instead of $60 for a brand RX, that is my right. It is also my right to say _enough_ when it comes to paying all this tax. Not that I think it will have any effect, but there is no reason why I shouldn’t be able to say that it is getting to be too much. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/220 "2009-09-26T23:15:03Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It is also my right to say _enough_ when it comes to paying all this tax. Not that I think it will have any effect, but there is no reason why I shouldn’t be able to say that it is getting to be too much. Still waiting for the cite that says you’ll pay more in taxes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616.md?page=12)