# New Study: 45,000 die in U.S every year from lack of healthcare **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616 "2009-09-18T17:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/241 "2009-09-29T04:34:09Z")
> [@wonder9](#): > > This is just a general observation after wading through this really awful thread. Curlcoat…you may not be but you certainly appear to be a heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish human being. Everything is about YOU. Your money, your retirement, your situation. You seem to have zero ability to empathize with anyone else. When I picture you in my head, which is unfortunate in and of itself, I see a bitter lonely woman who is shrieking at the kids in the neighborhood “stay off my lawn, go home, hope you get hit by a car, wish your mother had had an abortion.” And I’d be willing to bet money—not much, since I’m recently unemployed—that you go to church each Sunday and listen to the sermons without a hint of irony. I see. Because I wish to hold on to our retirement and not pay MORE taxes to support people who have zero to do with me, I am heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish? How do you characterize those who demand that I pay to help support them? Why is it that it is OK to not empathize with the position of those who are looking at paying more and more tax, when they will soon be on a fixed income? And fercrissakes, what does me getting tired of paying all this tax have to do with “a bitter lonely woman” blah blah blah? Sheesh. No, I don’t go to church at all. The last year I worked, 2007, we paid over $30,000 in payroll taxes alone. In 2008 we didn’t pay much in the way of payroll since we only had a little over four months worth of payroll that year; this year, it appears we will be well up in the tens of thousands again since my husband is working, and my SSDI is taxed. How much do you want us to pay out before you won’t think it “heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish” for us to want to be able to live the decent life that we have worked to earn? ---
**Author:** ![wonder9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c57346/32.png) [@wonder9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonder9)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/242 "2009-09-29T12:48:41Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > **I** see. Because **I wish to hold on to our retirement and not pay MORE taxes to support people who have zero to do with me, I am heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish? How do you characterize those who demand that I** pay to help support them? Why is it that it is OK to not empathize with the position of those who are looking at paying more and more tax, when they will soon be on a fixed income? > > And fercrissakes, what does **me** getting tired of paying all this tax have to do with “a bitter lonely woman” blah blah blah? Sheesh. No,\*\* I\*\* don’t go to church at all. > > The last year\*\* I\*\* worked, 2007, **we** paid over $30,000 in payroll taxes alone. In 2008 **we** didn’t pay much in the way of payroll since **we** only had a little over four months worth of payroll that year; this year, it appears \*\*we \*\*will be well up in the tens of thousands again since \*\*my \*\*husband is working, and **my** SSDI is taxed. How much do you want **us** to pay out before you won’t think it “heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish” for **us** to want to be able to live the decent life that **we** have worked to earn? Count em up… you’re heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish because you consider yourself the center of the goddamn universe and to hell with any one else. I haven’t heard one SHRED of sympathy for anyone else anywhere in this trainwreck. Is there anyone on the planet that you think is equally worthy of consideration as poor poor you? We all pay baby. We just pay in different ways and you need to stop whining about it or someone is going to drop a house on you. ---
**Author:** ![wonder9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c57346/32.png) [@wonder9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonder9)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/243 "2009-09-29T13:24:57Z")
Note to moderators: the phrase “drop a house on you” is a clear literary reference to another heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish witch (see the Wizard of Oz) and should not be construed in any way as wishing death on someone. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/244 "2009-09-29T14:05:07Z")
> [@wonder9](#): > > And I’d be willing to bet money—not much, since I’m recently unemployed—that you go to church each Sunday and listen to the sermons without a hint of irony. What - the central message of Xtianity isn’t ‘I’ve got mine so screw you?’ ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/245 "2009-09-29T14:16:00Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > What - the central message of Xtianity isn’t ‘I’ve got mine so screw you?’ What!?!? Are you saying that the point of the Good Samaritan _isn’t_ that if you come upon someone who needs medical attention, you should deny them health care? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/246 "2009-09-29T14:23:54Z")
I feel sorry for curlcoat’s husband, and anyone else that has to actually interact with her on a regular basis. \ The Horror! The Horror! ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/247 "2009-09-29T14:44:59Z")
Here’s the thing, **curlcoat**. According to your own testimony, you grew up in poverty, and rose out of that to become what you call middle-class and some people would call wealthy. The point is, you are no longer poor, and will fight hard to keep from becoming poor again. Which is completely reasonable, since being poor sucks. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. What some people are proposing are government reforms which would improve the lot of the poor. You object because the tax increases necessary for such a program might drive you back into poverty, which is unlikely but possible. Of course, it’s also possible (though, again, unlikely) that you and your husband could become poor again through some means completely unrelated to your tax burden, whether or not these reforms pass. But you know what? _If_ the reforms happen, and _if_ you somehow lose all your money, _ **being poor will suck a lot less than it did the first time.** _ That’s why these programs are referred to as a ‘safety net’–they won’t keep you from falling, but they’ll make it hurt less when you land. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/248 "2009-09-29T15:17:38Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > What!?!? Are you saying that the point of the Good Samaritan _isn’t_ that if you come upon someone who needs medical attention, you should deny them health care? It’s clearly the message American Christians have taken from the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/249 "2009-09-29T15:49:32Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I see. Because I wish to hold on to our retirement and not pay MORE taxes to support people who have zero to do with me Just a friendly reminder: You still haven’t provided us a single cite that shows you’d pay more in taxes. What do you think of allowing drugs to be imported from Canada? This would drastically reduce the costs of prescriptions in this country. It would personally benefit you. For or against? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/250 "2009-09-29T18:04:36Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I see. Because I wish to hold on to our retirement and not pay MORE taxes to support people who have zero to do with me, I am heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish? Why do you expect sympathy from people who have nothing to do with you? So what if you become poor? So what if you eat catfood from now until you die? You have zero to do with me: explain why your personal situation should be a concern for anyone at all. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/251 "2009-09-29T18:37:23Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > The subject started out being your childishness. No, bitch. The subject is that I had to invoke Mod help to get you to stop PMing me, and now you keep bringing up the contents of our PMs. I don’t see how that equates to ME being childish. > [@](#): > > For what? That more babies are born in poverty each year? Do you think that somehow none are? There will always be poor people. They cannot be eliminated. We can try to help them, if you want there to be fewer, but it costs money. You cannot have it both ways-- helping fewer people be poor, but spending zero dollars on it. > [@](#): > > AGAIN, there is a huge difference between contributing to society for 35+ years and then taking one’s social security, and deciding that society owes you support because your children are going to be “important”. Your continually trying to pretend that my taking my social security early, after those decades of paying into society, is the same as people who start out by taking just shows how weak your position is. The fact that you are making shit up yet again and putting words in torie’s mouth shows how weak your position is. She never said “society owes her support.” She qualifies for Medicaid for her kid, so she avails herself of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that; it’s why such programs exist. In Canada, she would not need to be made to feel like a freeloading welfare queen by the likes of you, because she would just get the free health care. So, in Canada, she’d be a productive member of society; in the US, assholes like you get to make her feel like shit for getting health care coverage for her child by 100% legally available means. Nice. > [@](#): > > That you think that expecting the government to help support you qualifies as “providing for your family”? Yes. The government is not supporting her. The government is providing health care coverage for her kids. The fact that you can’t see the difference is really your problem. > [@](#): > > No. You don’t understand how insurance companies work, so you don’t understand what impact some of those proposed laws would have. Since you are so much greater in your understanding, why don’t you explain to me what the impact of these laws will be, and why this will be a problem that I should care about? Please include cites. > [@](#): > > No, I can’t if for no other reason that I don’t know which plans stand the best chance of passing - do you? Start with the one Max Baucus is supporting. See what that one is all about. Then get back to us with some numbers. > [@](#): > > But since you like to play pretend, lets say that the one where they plan to only tax those that make over $350K passes - with that one, the apparent plan is it wouldn’t cost me anything. But, if _any one_ of those variables I listed happens, it will cost me money because they will have to get the money from someplace. Do you think that simply because a bill passes that says they will only tax a certain income, that is the only place the funds will come from, forever? Translation: “I have been offered evidence that UHC will not cause me and my husband a tax increase, but this does not jibe with my version of reality, where helping poor people will make me poor, so I refuse to believe it. Ironically, earlier in this very post, I accused someone else of liking to play pretend. Bwahaha!” > [@](#): > > The thing is, you can’t cite any ACTUAL NUMBERS either. Sure I can-- zero is an actual number, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > Because nobody actually knows what it’s going to end up costing - how can you estimate how often services will be used, what services, what they will end up costing, how much it will cost to have a new government entity to administer it, how it will ultimately affect the private insurance companies, how it will ultimately affect research. Translation: “Lalala, I refuse to believe that UHC won’t cost me anything, despite evidence provided to the contrary, so I’m going to pretend that it will because it will further fuel my paranoid fears of incipient poverty caused by all the welfare queens and their baybeeeees!” ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/252 "2009-09-29T20:30:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > For what? That more babies are born in poverty each year? Do you think that somehow none are? Hint - _more_ is not the same thing as _any_. No one is saying that there aren’t _any_ kids born into poverty, they are just saying that there aren’t _more_ kids born into poverty every year. Can you see the difference? Maybe you should save up some budget money and buy a dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/253 "2009-09-29T21:45:52Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Can you concentrate real hard and see why I focused on Canada? It was the main thrust of my question, but I would have liked to hear about the UK or other countries if you knew anything about them. So you are saying that you are recommending the UHC programs from other countries, even tho you have no information to offer about them? Does this mean you have no idea if any of those countries have “people dying in the street, are not ‘taxing the middle class out of existence’ or threatening peoples mortgages”? > [@](#): > > I was trying to put the tax burden into human terms, but since apparently personal anecdotes are allowed only from you, It helps if the anecdote actually addresses the subject. > [@](#): > > I used [this](http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax) to calculate income tax on an income of $110,000 (since that is what I think you said your husband earns). In BC, the closest analogue to your west coast home, you would pay $29,826. This is less than what you pay, as per your claim that your husband pays more in taxes than you personally have ever earned. You don’t remember very well do you? The most I’ve ever earned is over $30,000 - I’d have to go back and look, but I think it was close to $35,000. And we paid more than that in income tax. > [@](#): > > So where is this big difference that makes Canada suitable for UHC and not the US? I don’t believe I have ever said that some magic number of people in any given income class is the big difference. As a matter of fact, I believe I have been very clear that there are _many_ reasons why it could work up there and not down here. Also, what criteria are those stats based on - I notice that your percentage for poverty cite also says that “poverty has increased among new immigrants, aboriginals and single mothers since 1980” and that new immigrants can expect to earn “a lot less”. This seems to indicate a rather mobile lower class in Canada, whereas among those living in poverty in the US we tend to have generations repeating it. I dunno about our new immigrants, or our “aboriginals”. Anyway, the point is that using just one site isn’t a good way to decide if something as major as installing a UHC in the US is a good or bad idea. > [@](#): > > I am happy with UHC because it allows me to pursue my education without worrying about my healthcare costs bankrupting me or costing my parents a lot of cash. My government is supporting me with a research scholarship because I earned it with years of hard work, and because they understand that helping people to get started creates more productive members of society. You can bet when I get my PhD and a good job I will not need to suck up to some sugardaddy husband to pay my way for me - I will be capable of bringing home the bacon myself. It’s nice that you are “sure” that you are going to be able to get and keep a good job after the taxpayers in your country have paid for you to obtain an advanced education as well as your healthcare. God forbid that your parents, your “solidly middle class” parents with no tax worries, pay for any of their child’s expenses. Of course, except for the healthcare we have that here too - we pay taxes so peoples children can go to college, but here that PhD might not equal a good job so the taxpayer may never see a return for that investment. I guess it might be “fair” if the taxpayer had paid to educate my husband, but back then they didn’t. Not that I think that parents should be having children that they expect that the taxpayer should pay to send to college… Anyway, you are still sidestepping most of my response to your question. I have a feeling it is because you don’t know any of the answers, you just think that because the UHC works for you, it must work for everyone, everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![wonder9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c57346/32.png) [@wonder9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonder9)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/254 "2009-09-29T22:17:14Z")
jesus, you’re repulsive. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/255 "2009-09-29T23:16:28Z")
How much time have you actually spent looking for cites, curlcoat? Compare that time to the amount of time you spend rambling about how you’ll be driven into the poor house yet zero actual evidence to back this up. You’ve made hundreds of posts on this issue. Hundreds! Who knows how many hours you’ve spent typing angry rants about your financial fears. Why aren’t you making a serious effort to look for cites? Wouldn’t you be enormously relieved if you found out you wouldn’t be paying more money, or maybe even paying less? Wouldn’t you like to feel a little less bitter and fearful? Conversely, if we’re all wrong and you’ll be paying more, wouldn’t you love to prove it to us and score some points in this long running argument? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/256 "2009-09-29T23:30:40Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > How much time have you actually spent looking for cites, curlcoat? > > Compare that time to the amount of time you spend rambling about how you’ll be driven into the poor house yet zero actual evidence to back this up. You’ve made hundreds of posts on this issue. Hundreds! Who knows how many hours you’ve spent typing angry rants about your financial fears. > > Why aren’t you making a serious effort to look for cites? Wouldn’t you be enormously relieved if you found out you wouldn’t be paying more money, or maybe even paying less? Wouldn’t you like to feel a little less bitter and fearful? > > Conversely, if we’re all wrong and you’ll be paying more, wouldn’t you love to prove it to us and score some points in this long running argument? She is not going to look for cites. Ever. When are you going to finally get that? :dubious: She is not going to look for or give you any cites. She is just going to keep on ignoring you. Please…can we admit, finally, that she is very obviously and willfully and purposefully ignoring you? She’s just going to keep insisting she is right. It’s like I said in my recent pit of her..she’s either a troll or she’s so delusional that she’s willing to say she’s right over and over and over and over and over again–never giving up–until everyone else just gives up. Either way, seems to me TPTB here should eventually do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/257 "2009-09-29T23:49:46Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > She is not going to look for cites. Ever. When are you going to finally get that? :dubious: > > She is not going to look for or give you any cites. She is just going to keep on ignoring you. Please…can we admit, finally, that she is very obviously and willfully and purposefully ignoring you? You raise a very good point. It’s pretty futile. I just didn’t want her to “win” by sheer stubborn persistance. But that’s just an ego trap I’ve set for myself. The Terminator comparison made earlier was pretty accurate: She can’t be bargained with. She can’t be reasoned with. She doesn’t feel pity or remorse. And she absolutely WILL NOT STOP, until everyone gives up and the thread is dead. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/258 "2009-09-30T00:35:05Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Who’s sidestepping now? When you brought up this prescription you made it sound like a sacrifice you made because you are so responsible. But you actually got the same thing cheaper. Hmmm, imagine if you could get all your healthcare cheaper… How is that sidestepping. I go to the pharmacy and find out that this new drug is more than I want to spend. A couple of days later, the dr comes up with another RX that has a generic so is only $10. I have no idea if it is the “same thing”, it is merely the same sort of drug - a muscle relaxer - for all I know, the original drug works better and/or has fewer side effects. I’m just not going to pay $50 more to find out. I could easily get my healthcare cheaper, for a lower quality product. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > It’s hard to find a way to see how these people are being irresponsible or how they brought this on themselves. This is the kind of story that makes me favor UHC. It would guarantee a minimum level of coverage in employer provided plans, so people aren’t paying premiums for coverage that fails them when they need it most. Did I ever say that _everyone_ is irresponsible? No, of course I didn’t - you are the one that likes to exaggerate. However, that does point up one of those issues that might cause private insurance companies to give it up - if there is a law that requires that they have to pay for X, no matter what the premium(s) is that has been paid in, how long do you think they will be able to stay in business? > [@wonder9](#): > > Count em up… you’re heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish because you consider yourself the center of the goddamn universe and to hell with any one else. I haven’t heard one SHRED of sympathy for anyone else anywhere in this trainwreck. Is there anyone on the planet that you think is equally worthy of consideration as poor poor you? We all pay baby. We just pay in different ways and you need to stop whining about it or someone is going to drop a house on you. What trainwreck? As for sympathy, I have that for those who don’t go about demanding that others pay their way. I give to those who are trying to take care of themselves. If I considered myself the center of the universe, I’d be demanding things from others. However, all I am doing is trying to keep others from taking (even more) from me. And is it not “center of the universe” to say “you have more than I do, or those people - hand it over”? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/259 "2009-09-30T01:12:17Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Did I ever say that _everyone_ is irresponsible? No, of course I didn’t - you are the one that likes to exaggerate. However, that does point up one of those issues that might cause private insurance companies to give it up - if there is a law that requires that they have to pay for X, no matter what the premium(s) is that has been paid in, how long do you think they will be able to stay in business? THAT POST WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO YOU. It was posted in a thread about UHC. The fact that you feel the need to take it personally and respond to it as if it’s all about you is just so fucking typical. And sorry, I feel worse for the poor people who are paying 45% of their annual household salary for medical bills than the fucking insurance companies. THIS is an example of a middle class family being driven into poverty-- not by taxes to help the poor, but by shitty insurance coverage and high health care costs. These people are living your unfounded fears. Yet all you care about is the poor insurance companies. You’re a piece of work. ETA: If the insurance companies are actually at risk to go out of business (cite?), then the public option becomes more viable. Cry me a river for the insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616/260 "2009-09-30T01:26:43Z")
I’ve reached the conclusion that when **curlcoat** dies, they’ll find millions of dollars in her mattress, and empty cat food cans and a spoon in her kitchen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-45-000-die-in-u-s-every-year-from-lack-of-healthcare/510616.md?page=14)