# New Study: Liberal Atheists = Smartest People **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354 "2010-02-25T03:04:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/61 "2010-02-27T02:09:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Interesting definition. The “willingness to contribute private resources” part is odd–I would say that fiscal liberals are those who desire for the government to force the conribution of private resources, whereas fiscal conservatives want the private resources to be deployed by the private sector. That’s as much as to say that all resources are private by definition. They’re not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/62 "2010-02-27T02:12:47Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > Not sure if this is related to the OP, but does anyone know of a study that says Religious Conservatives are more intelligent? Obviously far less intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/63 "2010-02-27T02:17:54Z")
BTW, the study linked in the OP is by [Satoshi Kanazawa,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa) an evolutionary psychologist with controversial theories about race and intelligence. > [@](#): > > Kanazawa’s theories on race and intelligence are controversial.[citation needed] Kanazawa has argued that Asian cultural traditions and/or character inhibit Asian scientific creativity[11] and that “political correctness” is a bigger threat to American evolutionary psychology than religious fundamentalism.[12] As a result, he has been accused of promoting “racist stereotypes”.[13] In 2006 Kanazawa published a controversial paper suggesting that poor health of people in some nations is the result, not of poverty, but rather lower IQ.[14] In the British Journal of Health Psychology George T. H. Ellison wrote that the theory is based on flawed assumptions, questionable data, inappropriate analyses and biased interpretations. Ellison wrote that Kanazawa mistook statistical associations for evidence of causality and falsely concluded that populations in sub-Saharan Africa are less healthy because they are unintelligent and not because they are poor.[15] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/64 "2010-02-27T02:25:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Are you suggesting that a significant number of conservatives would falsely identify themselves as liberal? Can you blame them? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/65 "2010-02-27T04:21:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Obviously far less intelligent. Typical condescending arrogant comment. Not too surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/66 "2010-02-27T05:58:21Z")
So is it your hypothesis, **Dio** , that belief in God largely = stupid? If so, I would remind you that in addition to Newton, William F. Buckley, Jr. - a man who could proclaim, seriously and perhaps accurately that he had never met anyone as smart as he - was a devout and passionate theist. George Will also is a theist. I’m sure I could come up with a list of intelligent theists that would be just as extensive as any you could come up with to the contrary. To my mind, the belief that evolution alone accounts for all that we know of as life requires a much greater faith and belief in the impossible (or extraordinarily unlikely) than does the idea of intelligent design. (And besides, who’s to say that evolution itself isn’t the result of intelligent design? The phrase _“In the beginning God created evolution”_ comes to mind. :D) Frankly, I don’t think intelligence has anything to do with either belief in God or liberal or conservative politics. There are brainiacs and dolts on both sides, and as far as I can tell they’re pretty much evenly distributed. One difference in the two which I have found is that liberals are vastly more fond of proclaiming that anyone who disagrees with them is either stupid or evil. (This thread being a perfect example of the latter.) William F. Buckley writes about this practice himself in _God And Man At Yale_ and offers examples going back at least to the turn of the twentieth century. To me this explains why liberals are so unyielding and dictatorial in their beliefs and demands (and why they represent the greatest threat to our freedoms and liberties.) To the liberal mind there is simply no other logical or reasonable way to think. This characteristic is most in evidence here on this board when it comes to the issue of government involvement in health care. Time and again conservatives here voice opposition to government health care based upon legitimate concerns such as whether or not the provision of health care should be the proper role of government; the possiblility that it could well become a slippery slope toward socialism; that it would result in long waits and substandard care compared with that which 85% of our citizens now enjoy; that the U.S. government has an utterly dismal record of operating any major social program without horrendous waste and bureaucratic red tape; etc., and yet our concerns invariably fall on deaf ears and are met instead with accusation after accusation proclaiming that we are selfish, uncaring and evil, and we want to see sick people dying in the streets. I was amused to observe in the admittedly leftie movie _Avatar_ when the protagonist proclaims to the American corporationists, “_When someone has something you want you make them the enemy to justify taking it from them_”, and yet this is the approach that liberals here in America have taken for decades. Whenever conservatives have something that liberals want (our produce, for example) or something liberals don’t want (belief in God, for another), no amount of explication will do and no credence whatever is given to our concerns. We are simply villainized as being evil or stupid and that’s the end of it. Do you really think that’s an intelligent approach to addressing our political differences? To me, it’s not an intelligent approach but merely an arrogant, dishonest and dictatorial one. (And, as we are beginning to see from one end of the country to the other, it produces a backlash.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/67 "2010-02-27T06:03:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Typical condescending arrogant comment. Not too surprising. It was a setup. It is also the correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/68 "2010-02-27T06:42:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So is it your hypothesis, **Dio** , that belief in God largely = stupid? I’m saying that the more intelligent people are, the more likely they are to be critical in thir thinking. Whatever you want to say about suprnatural beliefs, they do not reflect critical thinking. > [@](#): > > Whenever conservatives have something that liberals want (our produce, for example) or something liberals don’t want (belief in God, for another), no amount of explication will do and no credence whatever is given to our concerns. We are simply villainized as being evil or stupid and that’s the end of it. 1. Most liberals believe in God. Most American liberals are specifically Christian. 2. Liberals want conservatives’ “produce?” What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/69 "2010-02-27T06:53:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m saying that the more intelligent people are, the more likely they are to be critical in thir thinking. Whatever you want to say about suprnatural beliefs, they do not reflect critical thinking. > > 1. Most liberals believe in God. Most American liberals are specifically Christian. Well, to paraphrase yourself, most liberals may not be atheists, but most atheists (or at least the most vocal ;)) are liberals. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 1. Liberals want conservatives’ “produce?” What the hell are you talking about? Income. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/70 "2010-02-27T07:51:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, to paraphrase yourself, most liberals may not be atheists, but most atheists (or at least the most vocal ;)) are liberals. The more intelligent someone is, the more likely they are to be both atheistic and liberal, yes. There are conservative atheists, though. Karl Rove, for instance. > [@](#): > > Income. I have no idea what you’re fucking talking about. You said lberals want conservatives’ produce, and now you’re saying they want conservatives’ income? No they don’t. They just want to spend public money on feeding people and giving them health care instead of murdering brown people. The feeding and caring thing is actually cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/71 "2010-02-27T08:33:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The more intelligent someone is, the more likely they are to be both atheistic and liberal, yes. Sorry, gonna have to disagree with you there, chum. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I have no idea what you’re fucking talking about. You said lberals want conservatives’ produce, and now you’re saying they want conservatives’ income? No, I’m saying they’re the same thing. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No they don’t. Yes, they do. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They just want to spend public money on feeding people and giving them health care… And where does that “public money” come from, **Dio**? Primarily from the pockets of conservatives. And then who is the favorite target of liberals and Democrats to get even more “public money”? Why, conservatives of course. And then when conservatives balk at the idea of turning the government into some sort of uber parent, redistributing income and making us all slaves to it and one another, we get called selfish and evil, just like I said (well, that or murdering racists). :rolleyes: Now, am I to take it that your belief that conservatives only want to pay taxes if it will go to kill brown people is an example of the kind of superior liberal intelligence that you were bragging about in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/72 "2010-02-27T12:48:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Frankly, I don’t think intelligence has anything to do with either belief in God or liberal or conservative politics. There are brainiacs and dolts on both sides, and as far as I can tell they’re pretty much evenly distributed. Agreed. > [@](#): > > One difference in the two which I have found is that liberals are vastly more fond of proclaiming that anyone who disagrees with them is either stupid or evil. (This thread being a perfect example of the latter.) William F. Buckley writes about this practice himself in _God And Man At Yale_ and offers examples going back at least to the turn of the twentieth century. > > To me this explains why liberals are so unyielding and dictatorial in their beliefs and demands (and why they represent the greatest threat to our freedoms and liberties.) To the liberal mind there is simply no other logical or reasonable way to think. **Starving** , you ought to know better than this. Really, you make a reasonable statement about intelligence being pretty much evenly distributed, and then you turn around and call liberals ‘‘the greatest threat to your freedom’’? Give me a break. Conservatives can be every bit as stubborn, unyeliding and dictatorial as liberals. You perceive more bias because you post on a message board filled with vocal liberals. Do you really think liberals get a better reception when they post on conservative boards? Do you think I’ve never been called stupid or evil by a conservative? Hell, I once had a person tell me I was i_ncapable of real love_ because I believed in a brain chemical called oxytocin. Remember a certain election season in which certain liberal parts of a certain were proclaimed to not be ‘‘real America’’? You are aware there is a conservative militia right, and a ton of books about the liberal ‘‘war on America’’? It’s just astonishing to me that you can’t see how unyeilding your own side can be, even in light of an eight-year administration that pretty much rammed its agenda down America’s throat. You see liberals as wanting to steal money from the conservatives for horrors like socialized medicine but don’t seem to mind all the money that was stolen from liberals to wage a war whose necessity is very much in dispute. You have no justification to paint liberals with such a broad brush, any more than liberals are justified in their overgeneralizations. This is intellectual dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/73 "2010-02-27T17:57:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And where does that “public money” come from, **Dio**? Primarily from the pockets of conservatives. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/74 "2010-02-27T18:12:23Z")
For those who had trouble viewing the article, you might want to check [**this**](http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html) out from CNN. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/75 "2010-02-27T18:59:29Z")
All I can say is I know some incredibly intelligent conservatives and some very intelligent religious people. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/76 "2010-02-27T19:27:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Those laws were not written by academics and intellectuals, but by pandering politicians. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/77 "2010-02-27T19:32:52Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > My guess is that his brilliance was despite, and not because of his religion. I would say it was irrelevant, and one would have no effect on the other. A person can be devout and intelligent (or stupid). A person can be atheist and intelligent (or stupid). The same goes for conservative vs liberal (and that varies wildly, depending on the specific issue and who you are asking). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/78 "2010-02-28T00:32:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve always liked the observation by John Stuart Mill that not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives. Similarly, not all progressives are smart. If there’s a correlation between being an atheist & being smart, it’s like any other statistical correlation–not predictive in the individual. Or is it like the correlation between speaking Chinese & having epicanthal folds, or being pale-skinned & being an Olympic swimmer–an accident of history? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/79 "2010-03-01T16:32:37Z")
In [this blog post](http://volokh.com/2010/02/28/are-more-intelligent-people-more-likely-to-be-atheists/). Ilya Somin comments on some flaws in the conclusions. The conclusion about atheists seems on more solid ground, comparatively, than the conclusion about liberals: > [@](#): > > On the plus side, Kanazawa’s measure of atheism (survey responses stating a lack of religiousity and lack of belief in God) is better than his extremely dubious definition of liberalism. Even this part of his analysis is not completely airtight, since [lack of religiosity doesn’t necessarily equate to lack of belief in God](http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_03_08-2009_03_14.shtml#1236979063). Still, the two are at least highly correlated, and Kanazawa gets similar results for a General Social Survey question that directly asks respondents whether they believe in God. Controlling for various other variables, including education, gender, and race, more intelligent respondents are more likely to say that they don’t. And… > [@](#): > > Only about 2 to 10 percent of Americans are atheists and agnostics. In an overwhelmingly religious society, it is probable that relatively more intelligent people would be more likely to question conventional wisdom — especially since many of the arguments for atheism are counterintuitive. Kanazawa wrongly assumes that atheism is just as uncommon in the rest of the world as in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354/80 "2010-03-01T16:54:29Z")
That doesn’t surprise me, actually. I would think that intelligence would correspond to _some_ characteristics that could be called “liberal,” – e.g. social libertarianism, environmental concerns, globalism – but not necessarily all of them. Being smart doesn’t necessarily make anyone compassionate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-study-liberal-atheists-smartest-people/530354.md?page=5)