# New Survivor -- these fools can't make fire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163 "2004-02-02T07:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/1 "2004-02-02T07:12:27Z")
I must admit I was stumped by the failed fire-making attempts on this show. They showed at least two teams generating smoke from their stick-scraping. That’s 90’% there! I don’t understand why they apparently gave up. Rudy’s team tried it the smart way, with a bow. The string broke. For Pete’s sake, you retie the string, or get another one. And half these people have strings that should be plenty strong enough around their necks or on their hats. You know damn well an ex-Seal like Rudy can make fire if he wants to. It escapes me why this team didn’t succeed. Are those people really that dumb/lazy/easily discouraged? Or is this some kind of scripted artificial drama that they agreed to go along with? Or…? It sure doesn’t make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_The\_Younger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d9b06d/32.png) [@Paul\_The\_Younger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_The_Younger)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/2 "2004-02-02T07:33:05Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > I must admit I was stumped by the failed fire-making attempts on this show. > > They showed at least two teams generating smoke from their stick-scraping. That’s 90’% there! I don’t understand why they apparently gave up. > > Rudy’s team tried it the smart way, with a bow. The string broke. For Pete’s sake, you retie the string, or get another one. And half these people have strings that should be plenty strong enough around their necks or on their hats. You know damn well an ex-Seal like Rudy can make fire if he wants to. It escapes me why this team didn’t succeed. > > Are those people really that dumb/lazy/easily discouraged? Or is this some kind of scripted artificial drama that they agreed to go along with? Or…? > > It sure doesn’t make sense to me. Not the first time I’ve shouted in frustration at this show…but one of the women was wearing glasses…now, I don’t have a pair handy to test this, but can’t you use the lens just like a magnifying glass to concentrate the sun’s rays? I burned enough leaves and candy wrappers as a kid to know this, why don’t any of them?!? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/3 "2004-02-02T07:39:53Z")
I don’t think glasses would be that effective. The lens is smaller than most magnifying lenses, plus, I don’t think that the curve tends to focus all light at one point, just slightly change the rays. Preliminary testing with my own glasses and a flashlight confirms. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/4 "2004-02-02T07:46:06Z")
For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that the glasses wouldn’t have made fire. Given what these survivors have on hand, what _is_ the best/quickest way to make fire? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_The\_Younger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d9b06d/32.png) [@Paul\_The\_Younger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_The_Younger)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/5 "2004-02-02T08:01:52Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that the glasses wouldn’t have made fire. Given what these survivors have on hand, what _is_ the best/quickest way to make fire? Hatch seemed to know, but he wasn’t telling. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/6 "2004-02-02T08:01:58Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that the glasses wouldn’t have made fire. Given what these survivors have on hand, what _is_ the best/quickest way to make fire? The twirling a stick with a bow method is likely the most efficient. It appeared they have dry wood and tinder. They have machetes. They could make a rope from plant materials on hand or their bandanas, or use a string from a necklace/hat/waistband. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/7 "2004-02-02T09:08:11Z")
I’m not an expert survivalist by any means, but the one thing that occured to me in all their attempts was too much surface area. I have started fire with many of those means, and the one simple clue I learned was, focus all your effort getting a really small area really hot, rather than trying to simply create a lot of heat through effort. When they were all saying that such and such was really hot, so it must be close was a clue. Wood really doesn’t conduct heat very well, and it you have a 10 square inch area that seems really hot, then you are wasting a lot of energy. Focus here (litterally) people. Thats why the stick-and-bow method is best, you get all the heat energy created in a very small circle, plus you have the advantage of mechanical advanage., ie A less reciprocating long muscle stroke that creates heat concentrated in that small area. Nylon/tight cotton Shoe strings are decent bow string , hint hint hint. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/8 "2004-02-02T09:29:40Z")
Right on, **wolfman**. To clarify my OP question, are the people on the show really that incompetent, or are they playing along with some contrived scenario to heighten the tension? ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/9 "2004-02-02T11:58:45Z")
Well, I’m more than willing to stipulate that I don’t have the foggiest idea how to make fire. If I were suddenly dropped on a desert island and needed to make a fire I’d just be totally screwed. However, this bunch of mokes _wasn’t_ just suddenly dropped on a desert island, were they? They knew they were going for weeks, at least… maybe months. This is one of the most amazing things to me about every single Survivor show – don’t any of these idiots do _any_ basic research? If I _knew_ I was gonna be dropped on a desert island, and I had weeks or months to plan for it, _I would learn to make fire_. And I would practice every single day until I was pretty damned good at it. And this is completely excluding the fact that every single one of these mokes has actually played this game before, and should have known what to expect. ---
**Author:** ![Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horrifying_Howler_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/10 "2004-02-02T12:32:54Z")
I can’t believe I forgot Survivor was on last night. Rats. Does anyone know if they are playing last night’s episode again? ---
**Author:** ![dragongirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dragongirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragongirl)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/11 "2004-02-02T12:42:47Z")
They are playing it again on Tuesday night. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/12 "2004-02-02T13:00:48Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > I don’t think glasses would be that effective. The lens is smaller than most magnifying lenses, plus, I don’t think that the curve tends to focus all light at one point, just slightly change the rays. > > Preliminary testing with my own glasses and a flashlight confirms. I’m positive they **did** make a fire in one early (maybe the first?) _Survivor_ with someone’s glasses. It took awhile, but it finally did work. And in another one (Africa or Australia, I think) they tried it with a piece of a telescope, but I can’t remember if that was successful. Sue did say she practiced at home, but she must not have practiced enough. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/13 "2004-02-02T13:28:14Z")
I don’t think glasses would be that effective. The lens is smaller than most magnifying lenses, plus, I don’t think that the curve tends to focus all light at one point, just slightly change the rays. Preliminary testing with my own glasses and a flashlight confirms. Different kind of light. This is why you can’t use a flashlight to give yourself a tan. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/14 "2004-02-02T13:29:16Z")
BTW, how do I do the simple post-quote now? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/15 "2004-02-02T13:48:17Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > I’m positive they **did** make a fire in one early (maybe the first?) _Survivor_ with someone’s glasses. It took awhile, but it finally did work. I remember this as well. It had to be either the first or second survivor, because i only watched those two, but my recollection is that they used one of the members glasses to make fire, almost right off the bat. And I’ve done it myself as a child with friend’s glasses before, so yes, the lense from glasses can concentrate sunlight enough to generate enough heat. Maybe it depends on the prescription, but it can be done. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/16 "2004-02-02T13:50:57Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > BTW, how do I do the simple post-quote now? Hit the “quote” button on the bottom right of the post you want to quote. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/17 "2004-02-02T14:04:09Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > Hit the “quote” button on the bottom right of the post you want to quote. cool, thanks for the help! ---
**Author:** ![Greywolf73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@Greywolf73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greywolf73)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/18 "2004-02-02T14:19:54Z")
I totally agree with the OP here. They worked hard enough to see smoke. Hello? Fire soon to follow with a little bit more effort! Why on earth did they stop when they saw smoke? IIRC, all three teams stopped at that point. I found that truly bizarre. Makes me wonder about this season. Also, did anyone catch the “Burning Log” on the map at the beginning? It’d be awful (but pretty funny), if all three teams had ignored something so obvious as a way to obtain fire printed right there on the map. I thought I was seeing things but other people on TWoP saw it too. ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/19 "2004-02-02T14:23:48Z")
I had never watched SURVIVOR before the most recent Pearl Islands series, so I didn’t know any of these dudes except for Rupert. Richard Hatch just about blew my mind! What a creep! Excuse me, but I don’t want to see some old flabby guy take off his trousers every chance he gets. Was he always such a slime? If so, how did he win the first series? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163/20 "2004-02-02T14:31:21Z")
> [@annieclaus](#): > > I had never watched SURVIVOR before the most recent Pearl Islands series, so I didn’t know any of these dudes except for Rupert. Richard Hatch just about blew my mind! What a creep! Excuse me, but I don’t want to see some old flabby guy take off his trousers every chance he gets. Was he always such a slime? If so, how did he win the first series? 😕 Yes, he will always be naked. I’m terribly sorry. 🙂 And he’s _always_ been a creep, from the very first episode. The problem is, the man _invented_ Survivor strategy, and as much of a jerk as he is, you can’t discount him until you see his torch go out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-survivor-these-fools-cant-make-fire/227163.md?page=2)