# New twist from spammers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023 "2003-07-26T04:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/21 "2003-07-26T21:24:27Z")
I think you’re exactly right, **Max Torque.** But the non-bastard filtering dudes should be able to handle this scheme, too. They will have to not only look at the raw text, but consider how it will be displayed by a HTML editor, including such tricks as white-on-white and junk tags. And a list of parsed HTML from your sample would show a high ratio of invalid to valid tags. They can then conclude that either the sender was an idiot or a spammer. And there are more spammers in the world than idiots! And even the fact that so many dictionary words are broken up by tags is a spam-clue. How often do you send legitimate messages with tags imbedded in words? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/22 "2003-07-26T22:18:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*I found an interesting discussion about [Bayesian filtering here.](http://www.paulgraham.com/better.html) Reading that, I realize my own outgoing messages to some friends would be tagged spam. False positives do not engender confidence in the filter scheme. > > Just curious: Would POPFile identify the examples I posted in the OP as spam? If so, based on what critereon? > > I am reluctant to use a filter, since a 99.4% knockout rate doesn’t reflect the false positive rate. And anything other than 100% means I would have to look thru every single one of the spam-identified messages (headers at least) by hand or risk throwing out something I want to retain. > > My particular computing style means I sometimes get messages from people I don’t know, but very much want to communicate with. I have almost deleted some of these in haste to get rid if the junk. I’m sure different computing styles could use white lists to advantage, but I can’t. > > I told myself I would hold off on using a spam filter until it got intolerable, but every time the flood increases, I raise the bar. Right now I am up to about 100 unwanted emails/day. \*\* I have overcome the problems of occasional false positives; anything that my spam filter marks as spam gets an automatic reply (from my mail client), and gets deleted; the automatic reply states: > [@](#): > > Your message did not reach the addressee. > > In order to eliminate unsolicited messages, a ‘spam’ filter is implemented on this account; your message was identified as spam and deleted. > > Spam filtering can be an inexact science and sometimes completely innocent or legitimate messages are mistakenly identified as spam and deleted. > > If you feel that this is true of your message, please resend it, but this time, please INSERT A CODE WORD as the first word in the subject line; this will cause it to bypass the filter and the addressee will add your name to the ‘whitelist’ (preventing any further instances of misidentification). > > The code word that you need to insert in your subject line is the only one in this list that begins with the letter T: > CATAMARAN, ANGOSTURA, DETERGENT, TUNGUSKA, CONCHOIDAL, LENTICULAR. > > It should only be necessary for you do this once. Thank you for your patience. So when they resend, my spam filter still marks it as spam, but my message handling rules in the client will not delete it if the subject line contains ‘Tunguska’ - only a human reading the automated reply will be able to format a message that can bypass the filter. (I change the code words from time to time) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/23 "2003-07-26T23:03:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mangetout_ > …please resend it, but this time, please INSERT A CODE WORD as the first word in the subject line; this will cause it to bypass the filter and the addressee will add your name to the ‘whitelist’ (preventing any further instances of misidentification). > > The code word that you need to insert in your subject line is the only one in this list that begins with the letter T: > CATAMARAN, ANGOSTURA, DETERGENT, TUNGUSKA, CONCHOIDAL, LENTICULAR. > > It should only be necessary for you do this once. Thank you for your patience. Thanks, **Mangetout.** That sounds like a simple solution that will take no time or cause any confusion to implement. **NOT.** Jeez, the amount of administration for that (admittedly elegant) solution would exceed the accumulated time for me to hit the delete key in a year. And I’m pretty sure 80% of my potential friends would stare at that message, then turn off their computer, grab a beer and go watch TV. I guess my circles aren’t as sophisticated as yours. You might find that hard to believe, but let me give you an example of my contacts. In my small town, NOBODY has an unlisted phone number (except me – it’s a long story), and almost nobody blocks their caller-ID. Several times I have been told that someone wanted to contact me by phone, but couldn’t, because my name wasn’t in the book. I assure you, put my name in any search engine, and you will come up with hundreds of hits, most of which have my email address, and some of which have my phone. But the person didn’t even try it. We’re that ignorant. So what chance would I have to implement your solution? ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/24 "2003-07-27T01:25:50Z")
My ISP is getting better and better every day at filtering out SPAM. Now I never get any e-mail ☹ :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/25 "2003-07-27T01:58:37Z")
I don’t understand spam like this. What is the point of sending someone a bunch of gibberish? Who on earth is going to go, “Wow, fkjsufjsdjfksjfksuriwenmfcnf!!! I have to buy this product, the salespeople are so eloquent and the argument so well-reasoned! I know I’m sold!” I rarely get spam. Maybe a piece or two a week. This isn’t a complaint, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/26 "2003-07-27T02:11:37Z")
I’ve been training the Bayseian filters on my Mail app for Mac OSX for probably a year now. Blocks probably 95% or more of the spam by now. FWIW, I suspect a lot of the garbage emails are just testing for valid email addys. Spammers do dictionary attacks on isp domains. What spammers sell most are email lists to OTHER spammers. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/27 "2003-07-28T00:08:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*Thanks, **Mangetout.** That sounds like a simple solution that will take no time or cause any confusion to implement. > > **NOT.** > > Jeez, the amount of administration for that (admittedly elegant) solution would exceed the accumulated time for me to hit the delete key in a year. And I’m pretty sure 80% of my potential friends would stare at that message, then turn off their computer, grab a beer and go watch TV. I guess my circles aren’t as sophisticated as yours. > > You might find that hard to believe, but let me give you an example of my contacts. In my small town, NOBODY has an unlisted phone number (except me – it’s a long story), and almost nobody blocks their caller-ID. Several times I have been told that someone wanted to contact me by phone, but couldn’t, because my name wasn’t in the book. I assure you, put my name in any search engine, and you will come up with hundreds of hits, most of which have my email address, and some of which have my phone. But the person didn’t even try it. We’re that ignorant. So what chance would I have to implement your solution? \*\* Well, you could always add your friends to your whitelist before you even start, but maybe that would be too hard. Works really well for me is all I can say. ---
**Author:** ![Trigonal\_Planar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/0ea827/32.png) [@Trigonal\_Planar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trigonal_Planar)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/28 "2003-07-28T01:21:12Z")
Unfortunately, my “computing style” reflects that of Musicat’s. I can miss that 0.5% the gets a false positive, and it doesn’t save any time if I still have to look through the tagged spam. And yes, Mangetout, your solution, while elegant, would cause the same problem for me. “Duhh, he’s emaily address sure done look broken”. Whitelist is no good either, since that would assume I know ahead of time who might be emailing me. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/29 "2003-07-28T15:42:44Z")
I implemented the thing on my main email address where the only stuff that gets through is from addresses that are in your address book. Now I’ve started getting stuff from “[automated-response@earthlink.net](mailto:automated-response@earthlink.net)” and supposedly from MY own email address. What do these people think??? I turned on the filter so that I only get stuff from people I _want_ to get stuff from, so they munge the addresses to look like that. Do they think "My product is so great I just _know_ this person wants to see “Horny Teen Sluts Take It Up the A\*\*” if only I can get the message to them??? Jeezopete, I just do NOT understand these idiots. Stinking morons. I hate all spammers. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/30 "2003-07-28T17:44:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Archergal \* > What do these people think??? I turned on the filter so that I only get stuff from people I want to get stuff from, so they munge the addresses to look like that. Do they think "My product is so great I just know this person wants to see "Horny Teen Sluts Take It Up the A_\*" if only I can get the message to them??? Sure looks that way, doesn’t it? They know that only a few thousand more spams like that one, and you’re sure to break down and order their stuff. Let us know how you like it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Orange\_Skinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3be4f8/32.png) [@Orange\_Skinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orange_Skinner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/31 "2003-07-29T06:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seal\_clubber \* > \*\*If my **Penis Needs Enlargement** how come **Oriental Women Want To Meet Me**? \*\* Because they want to consolidate your debt, let you view them live, on their web cam, and teach you how to make more money than you’re making now–from home!!! The other day, I got a piece of e-mail labeled **SPAM**. They finally came up with something that works. Truth. Simplicity. I actually opened it. I deleted it five seconds later, but _I actually opened it_. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023/32 "2003-07-29T13:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Do you people also get called JOHN a lot? > etc. > > My email address is jjimm@ so I’m wondering if it uses the letter J to choose the commonest j-name. Do people whose email addresses begin with different letters get called different names? \*\* No, but I do get called Coil a lot since my e-mail is coil@… I also get called Tammy a lot (which is not my real name at all) and sometimes they call me Tammy Vittorio. Weird 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-twist-from-spammers/191023.md?page=1)