# New Urban legend? Printer 'black boxes' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860 "2015-01-03T16:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/21 "2015-01-04T04:26:21Z")
And yet the article mentions black and white printers also being able to implant secret codes somehow. I’m aware of a certain serial killer who was caught using the secret codes to track his letter to a specific printer. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/22 "2015-01-04T04:35:55Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Printers also have a number of other rather nanny/big-brotherish features these days. Many will not print an image of currency, for example - they contain image analyzing firmware that detect US currency (possibly others) and either print a blank, a black rectangle or a pattern of bars across the image. I always wondered: If you try to photocopy a bill, does it send a report to the local Counterfeiting Police as well? Read up on the [EURion constellation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation). This is a specific computer-recognizable pattern that appears all over the front or back (or both) of all modern US bills $5 and up, and on the currency of many other countries also. Modern color printers will balk when they see this, and likewise modern image-processing software too. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/23 "2015-01-04T05:14:27Z")
> [@Silophant](#): > > Note that the Wikipedia page specifies color laser printers, which =/= all printers. Black-and-white printers only have black ink, and are thus unable to print yellow dots on anything. I did look at the reports of the EFF and they do mention the color printers, and that it was possible in B&W ones, but all reports I saw do not mention any confirmed printers that used a tracking system in black and white. It makes sense as the most likely thing the authorities fear remains the falsification of money and documents that do require color. > **[Do Printers Leave Identifying Marks?](https://smallbusiness.chron.com/printers-leave-identifying-marks-57621.html)** > > Do Printers Leave Identifying Marks?. Your office color laser printer adds yellow dots, too small for the average person to see, to every page. The dots form patterns which identify the printer make and model. Printer companies, at the request of the... > [@](#): > > Types of Printers Affected > > The yellow dot technology appears to apply only to color laser printers and copiers. Monochrome laser, LED and inkjet printers lack the yellow toner necessary to print the dots, and therefore do not produce these markings. In addition, because Xerox developed the yellow dot technology during the 1990s, this affects only those printers made since then. Experts have identified yellow dot marks on documents from many printer makes, including Xerox, Hewlett-Packard, Toshiba and Canon. At the time of publication, experts know of no other secret identifying marks in printed materials, although the possibility exists, according to the Electronic Freedom Foundation. I have to mention here something that it is not a black box, but malware/trojans can open holes in your OS that other more unsavory guys can then exploit to add software that captures what you print and sends documents to other locations if your computer is on a network. I myself encountered one such beastie in an office, took awhile to clean it and to patch the printer software. [http://dwaterson.com/2013/04/01/network-printers-an-overlooked-security-threat/](http://dwaterson.com/2013/04/01/network-printers-an-overlooked-security-threat/) ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/24 "2015-01-04T16:08:50Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I always wondered: If you try to photocopy a bill, does it send a report to the local Counterfeiting Police as well? No, as there are plenty of legitimate reasons to photocopy currency. For example, transfers of real estate from a trust to a beneficiary of said trust, or vice versa, oven involve a token payment of $1 from the buyer to the seller, and a photocopy of the dollar bill will be made during the closing and filed with all of the relevant documentation. Another time I paid my deductible for a doctor’s visit in cash and the office worker who accepted the payment made copies of the bills for both their records and my receipt. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/25 "2015-01-04T16:49:38Z")
Most if not all printers and copiers that have money-detection will print currency images just fine… as long as they are at least a few percent different in size. To do so is technically illegal, as I learned many years ago when a client wanted to use money images on some printed materials. The basic rule is that the image cannot be mistaken for real currency - incomplete, less detailed and/or a different size are key exceptions. But the amount of secret shit embedded in the firmware, without disclosure and representing hand-in-glove cooperation between manufacturers and government control, irritates even me. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/26 "2015-01-04T17:20:50Z")
(patting my Epson LQ-500 dot-matrix printer with an 8-_kilobyte_ buffer) I don’t think I have any of those problems. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/27 "2015-01-04T17:46:10Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Most if not all printers and copiers that have money-detection will print currency images just fine… as long as they are at least a few percent different in size. To do so is technically illegal, as I learned many years ago when a client wanted to use money images on some printed materials. The basic rule is that the image cannot be mistaken for real currency - incomplete, less detailed and/or a different size are key exceptions. > > But the amount of secret shit embedded in the firmware, without disclosure and representing hand-in-glove cooperation between manufacturers and government control, irritates even me. [http://www.secretservice.gov/money\_illustrations.shtml](http://www.secretservice.gov/money_illustrations.shtml) among other things, the reproduction image has to be either less than 3/4 or more than 1.5x the size of the original bill. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/28 "2015-01-04T17:59:55Z")
Way back in the dark ages I went on a course to operate a Gestetner offset printing machine. No computers involved - you make a plate photographically, and the machine will then print a vast number of copies from that. To make colour prints it was necessary to make a plate for each of five colours and run the paper through the machine five times. With care, it was remarkable how good the final image could be. While we were learning at the factory, they told us that they had previously used currency notes as a readily available source from which to copy. That was stopped when some clown passed one over to a shopkeeper. It was on ordinary paper, and only printed on one side, but the shit hit the fan and they considered themselves lucky to have avoided criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/29 "2015-01-04T18:11:36Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > While we were learning at the factory, they told us that they had previously used currency notes as a readily available source from which to copy. That was stopped when some clown passed one over to a shopkeeper. It was on ordinary paper, and only printed on one side, but the shit hit the fan and they considered themselves lucky to have avoided criminal charges. In the mid-1970’s, there was a shitstorm because someone had made coffee mugs with a cartoonish picture on them, showing a three-dollar bill with Richard Nixon’s puss on it, and the Secret Service raided some shops in Marin County that were selling them and confiscated them all, because somebody just might be stupid enough to try using them as actual money and somebody else just might be stupid enough to fall for that. It created quite a media stir, but it all seemed to blow over after a while. I think they gave the mugs back. ETA: I think you can still find some of those mugs in places like eBay and etsy. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/30 "2015-01-04T18:40:16Z")
I’d say the $3 bill issue was more akin to Abbie Hoffman being arrested for wearing a ‘shirt made from an American flag’ (it wasn’t) - that is, an affront to the Establishment more than a breach of counterfeiting laws. I saw endless numbers of $3 Clinton bills stuck up on redneck business walls in the 1990s, including many that would pass even at second glance for real currency. Funny there were no raids on those… ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/31 "2015-01-04T20:15:12Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > …every printer now, even the cheapest one, has a mandated built in secret code it puts on every document, so anything printed on it can be traced back to the printer. This is done with yellow ink, which is why you can’t use a printer when it’s low on colored ink, even when you have plenty of black ink. Just yesterday, I printed a document with my HP Office Jet using only the black ink cartridge; no color cartridge was in the printer. The printer did not complain at all, just produced a B&W version of my document. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/32 "2015-01-04T20:25:17Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > … a ‘black box’ inside printers that stored copies of ALL documents printed For years, Xerox machines installed at Soviet embassies around the world were equipped with cameras that took photos of all documents processed by the machine and the film was retrieved by “repair men” working for the CIA. [cite](http://www.editinternational.com/read.php?id=47ddf19823b89) I doubt that the CIA has that much interest in medical billing. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/33 "2015-01-04T20:34:56Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > Just yesterday, I printed a document with my HP Office Jet using only the black ink cartridge; no color cartridge was in the printer. The printer did not complain at all, just produced a B&W version of my document. I want the model number please. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/34 "2015-01-04T21:30:31Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > For years, Xerox machines installed at Soviet embassies around the world were equipped with cameras that took photos of all documents processed by the machine and the film was retrieved by “repair men” working for the CIA. [cite](http://www.editinternational.com/read.php?id=47ddf19823b89) There were few things more tightly controlled in the Soviet Union than access to copiers. Units that were accessible to workers had counters and page logs built in to prevent “misuse” by copying subversive or contraband material. > [@](#): > > I doubt that the CIA has that much interest in medical billing. These days, I doubt there is any population-related data that someone isn’t using every available method to scoop up and feed the big data maw. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/35 "2015-01-04T22:28:35Z")
Oh what the hell, I’ll start a new thread (counterfeiting 100s). [/non hijack] ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/36 "2015-01-04T23:05:40Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > _Originally Posted by sbunny8 Just yesterday, I printed a document with my HP Office Jet using only the black ink cartridge; no color cartridge was in the printer. The printer did not complain at all, just produced a B&W version of my document._ > > I want the model number please. HP OfficeJet 4500 G510G All One Inkjet PC Printer Fax Scan Copy ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/37 "2015-01-04T23:26:28Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Probably not. I didn’t watch the entire video report (yet), but it reminded me that every printer now, even the cheapest one, has a mandated built in secret code it puts on every document, so anything printed on it can be traced back to the printer. > > This is done with yellow ink, which is why you can’t use a printer when it’s low on colored ink, even when you have plenty of black ink. Recently my HP OfficeJet 6600 would not print a B&W file because it was out of yellow ink. That seemed strange to me as I _thought_ I remember printing B&W when a color was out. Interesting… ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/38 "2015-01-05T00:03:22Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > HP OfficeJet 4500 G510G All One Inkjet PC Printer Fax Scan Copy I hope you are not jerking me around. Because that would be great to have a printer that will still print when it’s out of yellow ink. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/39 "2015-01-05T00:05:56Z")
I think a number of printers are configurable to print black-only, regardless of color cartridge status, or can have YMK-low conditions overridden for black printing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860/40 "2015-01-05T00:21:56Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I hope you are not jerking me around. Because that would be great to have a printer that will still print when it’s out of yellow ink. In HP printers I have seen that the solution is at the time one is printing, usually there is a choice under Properties that goes like this (in Windows machines): “-In the software application that you are using to print, click the File menu. -Click Print. The Print dialog box opens. -Make sure that the name of the HP printer you are using displays in the printer Name box. If necessary, use the drop-down list to select your printer. -Click the Properties button. The Properties dialog box opens. -Check the options on the property tabs to make sure that the appropriate color options are selected. -Add a checkmark in the box by “Print in Grayscale”. -Try printing again.” (From HP) One warning from HP mostly for inkjets: “If a cartridge is depleted during a print cycle, then the unit will continue to print at a slower rate as the User Guide details. However, once this job is completed and the unit goes into an error state about the depleted cartridge it will prevent continued printing until the cartridge is replaced. This is to keep the unit from drawing air through the printhead or drying of ink ports, thus potentially damaging/ruining the print mechanism of the printer.” > **[Archived - HP Support Community](https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/contentarchivals/contentarchivedpage/message-uid/2434495)** > > Join the conversation in HP’s Support Community / Forum to find solutions, ask questions, and share tips for HP Notebooks, Printers, Desktops, tablets, more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-urban-legend-printer-black-boxes/708860.md?page=3)