# New Usama Tape: real, important, he's alive?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423 "2003-02-11T20:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/1 "2003-02-11T20:50:09Z")
Damn, as to the last part. [Usama urges Iraqis to get in trenches and fight.](http://www.msnbc.com/news/842500.asp?0cv=CA01) > [@](#): > > THE SPEAKER on the tape, aired on the al-Jazeera Arab satellite station, described al-Qaida fighters in Afghanistan withstanding heavy U.S. bombardment by hiding in trenches. > “With all the might of the enemy, they were unable to defeat us and take over that position. … We hope that our brothers in Iraq will do the same as we did,” said the voice. > The speaker said the United States was waging a psychological war against Iraq and urged Muslims to stage suicide attacks on Americans. > At the same time, the message also called on Iraqis to rise up and oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, who is a secular leader. He called Saddam a socialist. See, told ya. I think Usama wants to be the new leader of Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/2 "2003-02-11T21:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > This war of the infidels that the U.S. is leading with its allies…we are with you and we will fight in the name of God[.] Just for once I’d like to see God do his own damn dirty work. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/3 "2003-02-11T21:09:28Z")
This is certainly going to be trumpeted as a “link” between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, proving Saddam has been sponsoring AQ, even though bin Laden called for Saddam’s _ouster_. The enemy of your enemy may or may not be your friend. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/4 "2003-02-11T21:13:47Z")
That footage looks surprisingly familiar, except when it doesn’t look like the same Osama. Still, though, Al-Qaeda’s bigger shows are usually preceded by a pep-talk of this sort. Looks like this Washingtonian (or at least very near neighbor) had better lay in a three-day supply of tequila and cigars. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/5 "2003-02-11T21:15:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > **This is certainly going to be trumpeted as a “link” between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, proving Saddam has been sponsoring AQ, even though bin Laden called for Saddam’s _ouster_.** Right now, the call for Saddam’s ouster that **Beagle** ’s link cites is no longer on that page. Strange. **Beagle** , recheck your link. See what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/6 "2003-02-11T21:16:22Z")
Something odd: > [@](#): > > Calling on Muslims to “fight those who believe in Satan,” the voice quoted the Koran as saying “you shouldn’t take the Jews and the Christians as friends and whoever helps them becomes one of them.” This sounds more like a strained interpretation rather than a quote. Does anybody know what verse is being “quoted”? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/7 "2003-02-11T21:16:49Z")
Pfffft. If he’s alive, why doesn’t he show his face on video? He sure wasn’t shy about doing it before. It amazes me how people will claw their way to power by advocating that everyone else go die for the cause. It ASTONISHES me how people will listen to some clown who wants them to go die … and then go and do it. It’s our own fault, too. We’ve got a reputation worldwide as a big bully who will run away crying and hide if you bust him in the chops hard enough. If Vietnam didn’t do it, Somalia sure did… and now, we either prove it by running away, or disprove it by slaughtering thousands of Iraqis (and pissing off every Muslim on the planet). God bless American foreign policy. It could use the help. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/8 "2003-02-11T21:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally quoted from [MSNBC.com](http://MSNBC.com) by Beagle \* > \*\*At the same time, the message also called on Iraqis to rise up and oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, who is a secular leader. \*\* **Beagle** , was that line originally in your linked, cited [MSNBC.com](http://MSNBC.com) page? It’s not there now. ---
**Author:** ![lout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@lout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lout)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/9 "2003-02-11T21:22:41Z")
Why is it that this paragraph: “At the same time, the message also called on Iraqis to rise up and oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, who is a secular leader.” –does not appear in the cited article. Did that quote once appear in the article and then disappear? What’s going on? If that is what Osama bin Laden said, then Powell evidently agrees with Osama and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/10 "2003-02-11T21:47:31Z")
The timing is certainly suspect. For those that don’t know, today is the Day of Arafa. An Islamic holiday commemorating the revelation of the “most important” piece of Allah’s message to Muhammad. This is a day for Islamic solidarity, when they come together in the Desert of Arafa and their sins of the past two years are forgiven and they “take up stones to assail satan” with. A discussion of the Day of Arafa and a sermon(with cites from Islamic scripture) commemorating the occasion can be found [here](http://www.prairienet.org/cimic/Sermon-of-Sacrifice-Festival.html). A more succinct summary of the day’s significance can be found [here](http://www.islamicfinder.org/Hcal/events/arfa.php?lang=). Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/11 "2003-02-11T21:48:10Z")
Why the discrepancy? Did **Beagle** insert that out of some badness? Or did MSNBC self-censor? Misprint corrected? Or removed at someone else’s insistence? The [BBC article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2750439.stm) doesn’t mention the phrase, but it also appears to be quoting a US press release rather than the original. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/12 "2003-02-11T21:48:17Z")
Is historical revisionism on a 5 minute delay now? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/13 "2003-02-11T21:53:15Z")
That Beeb article says that Al Jazeera at first denied the tape’s existence, then confirmed it. Meanwhile, [ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030211_1814.html) is now reporting: > [@](#): > > The speaker on the tape said nothing about direct ties between al-Qaida and the Iraqi government saying his followers only share a common interest with Iraq, even though he denounced Saddam’s secular, socialist al-Baath party as “infidels.” ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/14 "2003-02-11T21:54:08Z")
OK … phew! [Yahoo.com is carrying a corroboration as of 3:52 CDT](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_tape_14): > [@](#): > > \*\*The speaker on the tape said nothing about direct ties between al-Qaida and the Iraqi government — saying his followers only share a common interest with Iraq, even though he denounced Saddam’s secular, socialist al-Baath party as “infidels.” > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/15 "2003-02-11T21:54:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\ ***Beagle** , was that line originally in your linked, cited [MSNBC.com](http://MSNBC.com) page? It’s not there now. \*\* That was a cut-and-paste about one minute after I heard the Usama tape on TV. A translator was trying to do it live. I heard the translator say “socialism.” It could be they have edited their early remarks based on some new translation of something. No, I was not trying to make any point by saying Saddam is a secular leader. I’ve heard lots of other people say it. I was trumpeting my detective work in discovering that Saddam idolizes Stalin. The “socialist” part I heard on TV live was the only thing I found interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/16 "2003-02-11T21:59:03Z")
Well, I found a lot to be interesting. Obviously, this is a big news story. If everyone else already knew - rather than just suspected - that Saddam is a Stalin wannabe, you might not understand what I thought was personally interesting about what I heard. Anyway, maybe there is a memory hole. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/17 "2003-02-11T22:00:59Z")
- no, not the tape (although it is pretty scary, too), but MSNBC’s glib updating - without a retraction - is one of the most chilling events I’ve so far experienced in this whole brouhaha. I am **not** happy with them. Does anyone have a link to a transcript ? ---
**Author:** ![lout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@lout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lout)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/18 "2003-02-11T22:01:11Z")
The deletion of the sentence about bin Laden calling for Saddam’s ouster is significant because it undermines Powell’s lie about a nexus between Iraq and bin Laden. Furthermore, it demonstrates that Bush’s invasion of Iraq is in fact bin Laden’s wet dream come true, because nothing could polarize the arab world more than this, and polarization has been bin Laden’s goal all along. The government is LYING to the world, and the media is helping. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/19 "2003-02-11T22:02:14Z")
This is the bad part about trying to do one thing while watching TV out of one eye. Was the footage shown on CNN while the tape was playing _file footage_? Was this just an audio recording? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423/20 "2003-02-11T22:02:41Z")
There are so many other cites out there with the relevant passage in them that I’m inclined to give MSNBC the benefit of the doubt… just. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-usama-tape-real-important-hes-alive/154423.md?page=2)